FH Mini 102 - The Films of Larry Cohen

Elliott Kalan

[0:00] Hey there, floppers. This is Elliot speaking. Before we begin this week's, let's be nice and call it nonsense. I just wanted to make sure you knew about the live show stuff we have coming up in case you miss it later in the episode or just can't wait to hear about it.

[0:12] We are still in the streaming window for the Flophouse Sinks Speed 2, our virtual online video event. Just go to stagepilot.com slash speed and you'll be able to see that whole show with exclusive footage that the in-theater audience didn't get to see through May 19th. After May 19th, of course, it goes back to the Flophouse Vault where it will never be seen again for a long time.

[0:35] Then on May 24th, we will be in Oxford, England as part of the Saint Audio Podcast Festival. We're doing two shows in one night, 7 p.m. and 9 p.m., two totally different shows, totally different movies, totally different presentations, totally different questions. It'll be great.

[0:48] And then for something even more completely different, on July 26th, we will be in Boston in person at WBUR City Space. We don't know what movie we're doing yet, but it'll be a fun show. It's going to be all new stuff. You're going to love it.

[1:00] So that's the Flophouse Sinks Speed 2, streaming now in Oxford, May 24th, and in Boston, July 26th. And now, on with our regular nonsense.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13] Hey there, folks. Welcome to another Flophouse Mini. That's a mini episode of the Flophouse Podcast, a podcast where we watch a bad movie and talk about it.

[1:22] And though normally on a mini, we just kind of do whatever we want, today we're going to be doing something a little bit different. We're going to be talking about a movie we watched.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30] We're going to be doing something different than whatever we want.

[1:32] Yep.

[1:33] That implies that someone's forcing us to do this.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37] That is actually kind of what's happening because I'm forcing Dan and Elliot to talk about the thing I want to talk about today.

[1:43] Which is we are opening up the old Movie Minute mailbag and pulling out the first Flophouse Mini.

[1:54] I believe the first Flophouse Mini we did was a Miss That Movie.

[1:58] I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was a Miss That Movie.

[2:01] And that's kind of what we're going to do today.

[2:03] We're going to talk about a movie that we did not cover for the podcast.

[2:07] But in a way, we are going to be kind of covering it for the podcast.

[2:10] But before we get to that, I'd like to introduce myself.

[2:14] My name is Stuart Wellington.

[2:15] I'm one of the hosts.

Dan McCoy

[2:16] And joining me are...

[2:17] I'm Dan McCoy.

[2:18] Here wondering why mailbag was in there other than to be another M word.

Elliott Kalan

[2:24] And I'm Elliot Kalin.

[2:25] And you're right.

[2:25] McCoy could have been the other M word.

[2:27] That's true.

Stuart Wellington

[2:28] Oh, God.

[2:28] Just put it...

[2:29] Alex, go back.

[2:30] Swipe out mailbag and put in McCoy.

[2:33] Anytime I said mailbag, just swap it out for McCoy like a Madlib.

[2:39] Madlib starts with M too.

[2:42] Wow.

[2:42] What doesn't start with M?

[2:44] Well, the movie we're going to be talking about.

[2:46] We're talking about a movie that starts with...

[2:47] Well, it kind of does start with an M.

[2:49] We're going to be...

[2:50] M is the second letter.

Elliott Kalan

[2:51] It's the runner-up to the main word in the title.

[2:53] Jesus Christ.

Stuart Wellington

[2:55] Okay.

[2:56] Jesus Christ doesn't start with an M.

[2:57] You're right, Dan.

[2:58] Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[2:58] I can salvage this, guys.

[3:00] Okay.

[3:01] Impossible.

[3:02] We can get this one back on the rails.

[3:04] Okay.

[3:04] This is fine.

[3:05] Okay.

[3:06] Thanks again for listening.

[3:07] If this is your first episode, don't throw it away right away.

[3:10] Yeah, find a different one.

Elliott Kalan

[3:12] Okay.

[3:12] If this is your first episode, throw your phone in the ground.

[3:14] Bury it.

[3:15] Never tell anybody about what happened.

Stuart Wellington

[3:17] So before I talk about what we're going to do on this episode, let's give a little backstory.

Dan McCoy

[3:21] Okay, please.

[3:23] Taking a page from me.

Stuart Wellington

[3:24] So a couple weeks ago, I went out for a movie date with my favorite movie date in the world.

[3:31] That's right, Dan McCoy.

[3:33] And we went out to a screening at the Nighthawk, part of their Ridiculous Sublime screening series that's hosted by our friend Christina Cacioppo, long time friend of the Flophouse.

[3:46] And this is a, what, a monthly screening series they do?

Dan McCoy

[3:49] I believe so.

[3:50] And it's been bangers so far.

[3:53] I hope it keeps going on forever.

[3:55] It's a great series.

Stuart Wellington

[3:56] Bangers all the way down.

[3:57] I think a previous recommendation, Prison, was part of that series.

[4:00] And Don't Tell Her It's Me?

Dan McCoy

[4:03] I don't, was that part?

[4:04] I guess, I think it must have been because.

Stuart Wellington

[4:06] No, I'm asking you, Dan.

[4:07] Should I tell her it's me?

[4:08] Oh.

[4:10] Just kidding.

[4:11] That's a movie that is also known as The Boyfriend School.

Dan McCoy

[4:14] Yeah, I just, I, just because you brought it up, I have to say that, like, so Stuart and I.

[4:20] Do you have to say it?

[4:21] Stuart and I and our friends Matt and Ksenia introduced a screening of The Boyfriend School at the Nighthawk Cinema,

[4:28] which is in part kind of a weird, like, anniversary screening of the fact that one of the first things that the Flophouse ever screened was programmed by Christina,

[4:38] and we watched Don't Tell Her It's Me.

[4:40] So we all came back together.

[4:42] It wasn't even, like, a big, it was, like, the 11th anniversary.

[4:46] It wasn't, like, a round number or anything.

[4:48] But we were hosting the screening, and before that, there was a trailer for Prison.

[4:53] And we, you know, had friends in the audience.

[4:55] Not the thing.

[4:57] Yeah, not the thing, the movie.

[4:59] We had pals in the audience coming out to see us do this screening,

[5:03] and there was, like, this huge reaction to this trailer for Prison, the next film in the series.

[5:08] And so, so many of those people came back for that movie.

[5:12] And then before Prison, there was a trailer for The Ambulance, what Stuart's about to talk about.

[5:17] And there was such a huge reaction to that trailer.

[5:19] A bunch of people came back.

[5:20] They're really selling these movies based on, like, good old trailers for these things.

Stuart Wellington

[5:25] So Dan and I went and saw The Ambulance, written and directed by Larry Cohen.

[5:31] And what we're going to do is we're going to talk a little bit about that movie.

[5:34] But, Elliot, I have a feeling you haven't seen The Ambulance in quite a while.

Elliott Kalan

[5:37] Yes, I saw it years, years ago, but I have not seen it in a long time.

[5:41] So I don't really, I remember kind of stuff about the basic premise, but I don't really remember the movie very well.

Stuart Wellington

[5:45] So maybe what we're going to do is we're going to take a second.

[5:49] We're going to watch the trailer.

[5:50] I think over the course of this episode, we'll probably reference a couple of trailers.

[5:54] Those will maybe be linked in the show notes.

[5:57] And if not, you might just have to use all your own, if you want to follow along with the Flophouse,

[6:02] just use your Googling skills to watch some of these movie trailers.

[6:05] So we're going to start with The Ambulance, starring Eric Roberts, written and directed by Larry Cohen.

[6:10] So why don't we roll this first trailer?

[6:17] The Ambulance.

S7

[6:18] If you call for help, you're dead.

Stuart Wellington

[6:24] So that's the exact same trailer they played before Prison.

[6:29] So you can see why the audience got all worked up and had to show up for the next screening.

[6:34] Oh yeah, you need to see it.

[6:35] It was a Rite of Spring style riot.

[6:39] Yeah, the very specific, like the very last line.

[6:44] First off, I don't know, that trailer just reminds me so much of how much I miss the trailer guy voice.

[6:52] You know, who like coaches you through what's going to happen in the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[6:55] To be honest, I think a lot of trailers nowadays are not very good.

[7:00] And through no fault of the people making them because they're not allowed to use, or the style went out for using voiceover narration.

[7:06] And I think having a voiceover that can just kind of fill in gaps in an exciting way adds so much to trailers.

[7:11] Like trailers would be much better if you had someone who could just be, just tell you a little bit of the story.

Dan McCoy

[7:15] And honestly, I wonder, I mean, maybe I'm wrong.

[7:18] I wonder if it has made screenplays dumber in a way where like they insist on having a few lines that could just be pulled out in the trailer to explain things.

Stuart Wellington

[7:29] Maybe, yeah, it's possible.

[7:31] Yeah, some moments of exposition they can throw in there.

[7:33] So, The Ambulance is a movie from 1990 written and directed by Larry Cohen.

[7:38] It's got that grimy New York feel.

[7:42] It stars Eric Roberts, who plays a cartoonist working for Marvel Comics.

[7:47] So, we get to see.

Elliott Kalan

[7:49] We get to see Stanley himself.

[7:51] That's the part I remember.

Dan McCoy

[7:52] Yeah, playing himself.

[7:53] It was the first, it was his first acting role in a movie, I believe.

[7:58] And one of his largest parts.

[7:59] Yeah.

[8:00] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[8:01] We get to see the inside of Marvel Studios, which apparently is very inaccurate for actual Marvel Studios at the time.

[8:09] And so, the premise of the movie is like Eric Roberts has an amazing mullet and he wears a lot of great suit jackets.

[8:15] Wait, that's the premise?

[8:17] And he becomes obsessed with a woman he sees whenever he takes his lunch break.

[8:24] Of course, it's Janine Turner.

[8:25] So, it makes sense that he's obsessed with her because there's a period of time where she was the hottest woman on the planet.

Dan McCoy

[8:31] You may remember her as the female lead in Northern Exposure, a show that has just come to Amazon Prime.

[8:38] So, we've started re-watching it or Audrey for the first time.

Stuart Wellington

[8:42] Uh-huh.

[8:43] You might also know that she's in the movie Cliffhanger, which rules.

[8:47] And he becomes obsessed with her only to follow her around.

[8:51] And then she collapses in the street and is picked up by a mysterious ambulance that whisks her away.

[8:56] And when he tries to track her down, he is unable to.

[9:00] Is this mysterious ambulance a murder machine?

Dan McCoy

[9:02] It could be that he tried—the problem might be that he tries to track her down by showing around this drawing that he has done of her that looks more like a Nagel painting.

[9:10] A Nagel painting.

[9:11] Janine Turner, but—

Stuart Wellington

[9:13] Which is like—I feel like I'm not the best artist in the world, and I certainly don't work for Marvel Comics.

[9:18] Don't cut yourself down, Stuart.

Elliott Kalan

[9:19] I think you are.

[9:20] I feel like—

[9:22] You're in the conversation for best artists.

[9:24] You're certainly in the top three.

Stuart Wellington

[9:26] Yeah, thank you.

[9:27] Elliot is being the voice of my therapist on this podcast.

[9:31] I shouldn't minimize myself in front of the audience.

[9:33] But I think that I could probably do a quicker sketch of Janine Turner than he does.

[9:40] Yeah, more accurate.

Elliott Kalan

[9:41] Version, certainly.

Stuart Wellington

[9:42] That he's like shopping around this sketch of her with a word bubble that says, like, have you seen me?

[9:49] I think it's very good.

[9:51] Yeah.

[9:52] He—luckily, doing—walking around with this drawing, he manages to bump into her roommate somehow, and he buys her the largest piña colada I've ever seen in my life.

[10:03] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[10:04] And you're a bartender.

[10:05] You're a professional.

[10:05] I'm a bartender.

[10:06] I've seen plenty of piña coladas.

[10:08] This is a lot of piña colada.

[10:11] Am I right?

Stuart Wellington

[10:11] Along the way, he runs afoul of the police.

[10:16] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[10:17] I'm sorry.

[10:17] Okay, hold on.

[10:18] We got a pause.

[10:18] I steamrolled over your joke.

[10:19] Yeah.

[10:20] Okay.

[10:20] It's okay.

[10:21] We haven't been working together that long, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[10:24] Along the way, he runs afoul of the police, and we are introduced to James Earl Jones, who plays a police detective.

[10:31] Dan, how would you—so Eric Roberts' performance is a little big, right?

[10:35] Yeah.

[10:36] How would you describe James Earl Jones?

Dan McCoy

[10:38] Eric Roberts, a man who is not afraid to go big, has gone big for this, what could have been played as a utterly normal leading man role, but he decides to put a goofball—

[10:49] That's not what Eric Roberts does.

[10:51] Eric Roberts does not play normal people.

[10:53] And meanwhile—

Stuart Wellington

[10:54] Now, does James Earl Jones bring the gravitas he usually brings to his performances?

[10:57] Well, that's the thing.

Dan McCoy

[10:57] If you want to see James Earl Jones cut loose, if you're like, sure, you know, respected actor James Earl Jones, as you say, brings the gravitas.

[11:06] If you want to see him instead do sort of like his gum-chewing spin on a, you know, a cop, a police chief in an old Superman serial, say, then that's kind of what he's bringing to the table here.

Stuart Wellington

[11:25] Now, Elliot, having watched the trailer, do you remember any of the movie, or is this like a—

Elliott Kalan

[11:31] I'm remembering more of it than I thought.

[11:33] I had forgotten.

[11:34] I remember that it was like the ambulance takes people to a place where they die.

[11:38] I can't really remember why or what, but there are scenes in it that I remember now.

[11:43] Like when he's—I had forgotten the part where he's strapped to a gurney bed in the back of the ambulance and kind of wheels himself out of the back of the ambulance through the power of shaking slightly.

[11:55] You know, that part I had forgotten, but now it's coming back to me.

[11:58] So Larry Cohen—

[11:59] Do you remember—do you remember—does Academy Award winner Red Buttons, how does he come off in the movie?

[12:03] Oh my God.

Dan McCoy

[12:04] Red Buttons is—there's a period in this—in the middle of this movie that turns into an Eric Roberts Red Buttons buddy detective movie.

[12:14] A team up you never in a million years would have thought you needed, but it's great.

Stuart Wellington

[12:19] It's like all of a sudden Red Buttons comes on and just grabs the steering wheel and he's like, we're going where I want to go from now on.

[12:27] And I mean, I feel like Larry Cohen is a specific type of like schlockmeister who puts out some really great junk, like really great, very entertaining junk.

[12:39] And I feel like so much of his work—and we're going to be talking about some of his other movies later—but so much of his work is based on him like seeing something normal and being like, what if that thing was scary?

[12:51] Yeah.

[12:52] Yes.

[12:52] Yeah, very much so.

[12:53] And I feel like the ambulance is very much alike.

[12:56] What if instead of an ambulance came to pick you up for safety, it picked you up for bad things?

Dan McCoy

[13:01] Yeah.

[13:03] Larry Cohen is so known for, as you say, these high-concept, grabby premises like, you know, like this.

[13:12] You got It's Alive with like a monster baby.

[13:14] We'll get into some of them.

[13:15] But I think that what's interesting to me is he actually doesn't sort of rest on his laurels with those premises.

[13:22] I think a lot of actual, you know, big-budget blockbusters are like, okay, we got a great idea.

[13:28] Done.

[13:29] Whereas he's like, no, the audience has to be entertained at all moments.

[13:32] And what struck me about the ambulance is the movie is perfectly happy to waste time on characters acting weird or doing like funny bits of business or stuff.

Stuart Wellington

[13:42] Oh, you think Red Buttons is doing funny bits?

[13:44] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[13:45] And in the meantime, like stuff that like normally would be in a normal movie, like characters sort of getting to know each other and relationships developing or like the plot mechanics needed to get you to one place to the next.

[13:59] Like he strips that down to the bone and he's like, yeah, you've seen a movie before.

[14:03] You get it, you know, and it's really entertaining.

Stuart Wellington

[14:06] They're like, oh, the people that are all missing, they all have diabetes.

[14:10] And then like a woman gets, a woman gets strangled as a way for the bad guys to get to Eric Roberts.

[14:16] And they're like, that woman who just died, she also has diabetes.

[14:19] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[14:20] It's like, wait, how's that figure in?

[14:21] You killed her.

[14:23] It doesn't make any sense.

Elliott Kalan

[14:24] Why did that have to happen?

[14:26] He's someone who, Larry Cohen is one of these guys who I think is a, he exists kind of halfway between the schlock world and the respectable world.

[14:35] His work and like, he's someone who gets more respect than your average schlockmeister, but you, yeah, you watch his stuff and you're like, this is someone who knows how a movie works and is deciding at different points, but we're not going to do it that way this time.

[14:45] Like we're going to, yeah, it's all, it's, I'm going to do the most out of things.

[14:48] And each scene.

[14:49] There's something exciting about that.

Stuart Wellington

[14:50] Yeah.

[14:51] And each scene, it feels like they're like, we could block it out and have choreography, like choreograph this fight sequence, or these guys can just wrestle on camera for a minute and we'll see how it shakes out.

[15:03] There's like car chases where James Earl Jones is chasing the ambulance and he's chewing gum the whole time and seeming kind of bored, but then they'll cut to shots of like cars whizzing through the rainy mean streets of New York.

[15:17] It's great.

[15:18] Over the course of the movie, we discover, yeah, that the, these, this ambulance is picking up people so that they can test drugs on them.

[15:27] And then eventually dispose of their bodies.

[15:30] And they're doing this in what, like the second floor of apartment buildings above dance clubs.

[15:38] Yeah.

[15:39] He eventually, you know, he tracks the, it goes back and forth where he gets taken away by a different ambulance.

[15:46] You're worried about these guys coming after him.

[15:48] The whole premise is that like he, it could lean into the idea that Eric Roberts doesn't know if he's like imagining things or not, but that is not the case.

[15:59] He is a hundred percent correct.

[16:01] Uh, he, this ambulance is bad.

[16:03] The cops eventually side with him, but it does become this weird buddy comedy.

[16:09] Um, and then of course there's a big showdown in a dance club that features the ambulances.

[16:14] The titular ambulance is parked in the club in the center of the club.

[16:18] And then the bad guy drives it around inside before driving through a wall or a doorway.

Dan McCoy

[16:25] Yeah.

[16:25] Why is this, why is this kitschy, interesting club decoration gassed up and ready to go?

[16:31] Turns out it's a killer ambulance.

Stuart Wellington

[16:33] It's just, it's, it's this wild thing of like, it, the one thing that I love about the movie is that it's constantly like coming up with new ways to be interesting, even if that doesn't necessarily relate to what was going on before.

[16:49] And of course, like Eric Roberts is giving one of those like career all time performances where you're like, this guy's a pro.

[16:55] He knows, he knows what this movie needs is a lot of life and energy.

[17:00] And he, you know, he brings it.

[17:02] It's great.

[17:03] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[17:03] This is a movie that no one is acting normally in this film.

[17:08] No one is acting like sort of your basic model human.

[17:13] You know, it's a movie that where Larry Corden's like, well, what if everyone was like really weird in some way and they exhibited it in most scenes.

Stuart Wellington

[17:24] And I'd even forgotten there's a whole sequence where James Earl Jones is what?

[17:30] Assistant?

[17:31] The, the other police, the police, the other, the police woman.

[17:34] The lady who becomes more important.

[17:36] Yeah.

[17:36] Who like shows up in uniform initially to mainly remind James Earl Jones about his schedule.

[17:44] She then spends the rest of the movie helping Eric Roberts track down this ambulance, but she's not in uniform anymore.

[17:54] And they kind of fall in love.

[17:55] And there's a lot of scenes where you're like, are they going to try and do like a love scene?

[17:59] But they kind of don't.

[18:00] It's very fascinating.

[18:02] I wish I remembered more of the movie because honestly I was fucking wasted.

Dan McCoy

[18:08] Wow.

[18:08] This is a real twist in the end of the ambulance here.

[18:11] Not what I expected.

[18:12] Wow.

[18:12] Yeah.

[18:13] No, I love that.

[18:13] I love the way that woman who eventually becomes sort of the female lead is introduced where she's reminding James Earl Jones about his dentist appointment.

[18:25] And he yells at her like mad that she's in his business, mad that she knows his schedule.

[18:30] And then she reminds him for something else.

[18:32] And he's like, get out.

[18:33] And then he gives this little sly smile where you're like, he likes it.

Stuart Wellington

[18:37] It's so weird.

[18:39] And then of course he has a death scene that is one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

Elliott Kalan

[18:44] See, I don't remember that.

[18:45] I don't remember that part.

[18:46] What happens to him?

Stuart Wellington

[18:47] So he's shooting, you know, he's having like a, he's playing chicken with the ambulance.

[18:52] Yes.

[18:53] He's like shooting, he's trying to shoot the ambulance, right?

[18:55] And he eventually like the ambulance runs him over.

[18:58] It like, you know, it hits him.

[19:00] It hits him.

[19:01] And he's chewing gum at the time.

[19:03] And then he rolls over on his back and he's still chewing gum as he dies.

[19:08] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[19:09] But it becomes a sort of mechanical like, you know, death blows.

[19:12] That slows down.

[19:13] Like, yeah, chewing.

Stuart Wellington

[19:15] And he does it in this like death-like rictus grin of chewing.

Elliott Kalan

[19:20] And the ambulance is not, there's nothing supernatural, right?

[19:24] No.

[19:25] It's just like a.

[19:26] It's the idea.

[19:27] So the movie, it's the problem is really not the ambulance so much as the people driving the ambulance.

[19:31] Yes.

[19:31] It's not like the ambulance is a character.

Stuart Wellington

[19:33] It's not like Christine or something.

[19:35] It's not like the car or something.

[19:35] Yeah.

[19:35] I mean, it is literally a car.

Dan McCoy

[19:37] I'm not going to name the names.

[19:39] It is a car.

[19:39] That's true.

[19:40] I'm not going to name the names of the other movies because then it would be spoilers for those movies.

[19:45] But it's one of those like the medical profession is, you know, stealing people for tests and such kind of movies.

Stuart Wellington

[19:52] You know, one of those kind of movies.

[19:54] Now there are other ones.

[19:55] Extreme measures is or whatever.

[19:56] Now eventually they track down.

Elliott Kalan

[19:58] Sorry.

[19:59] Sorry.

[19:59] I apologize.

[20:01] I shouldn't have.

[20:01] That's the one.

[20:02] That's the one that we all promised on our, on the souls of our parents never to reveal what was going on.

[20:10] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[20:11] Well, when we went to go see extreme measures, we're like, I wonder, I wonder how these measures are.

[20:16] You think they're normal?

Elliott Kalan

[20:17] I remember when, I remember when, when Michael Apted came out after the screening and said, please don't ever reveal the twist of what's happening in extreme measures.

[20:27] And I was like, are you going to do any more of those movies?

[20:29] And he goes, I have to wait seven years in between them.

[20:31] I wish I didn't.

[20:32] I wish I had given them a different name.

[20:33] So I didn't have to wait so much time between them.

[20:35] Anyway.

Stuart Wellington

[20:36] So one of the fascinating things about this movie is that Eric Roberts' character is obsessed with Janine Turner and his like driving forces that he wants to try and find this woman and save her.

[20:46] This woman he believes is in danger.

[20:49] A woman he has only seen from afar and then had one conversation with her in the street.

[20:55] That's all.

[20:56] And he knows she's diabetic.

[20:58] Eventually, he tracks her down.

[20:59] He tracks her down in this like weird medical ward above a dance club.

[21:05] And they're like rescuing all the people who were patient prisoners of the ambulance operation.

[21:12] And he finally gets to have a conversation with her.

[21:14] And she's obviously overjoyed that she's been saved.

[21:16] And she's like, can you call my boyfriend and tell him I'm okay?

[21:21] And Eric Roberts walks away so sad because he's like, boyfriend, what a bitch.

[21:28] It's like such a Matt Barry, that Matt Barry snuffbox bit where he's like.

Elliott Kalan

[21:33] As soon as each woman mentions a boyfriend, he just like smashes.

[21:39] He's like carrying a fish tank for one of them.

[21:41] He's like, allow me to help me with that, m'lady.

[21:43] And then he sees his boyfriend and he just drops it.

Dan McCoy

[21:45] A brilliant turn by the movie because like when you, he's our hero and he does eventually help a bunch of people.

[21:52] But we are introduced to him being like a real pest to Jeanine Turner.

[21:55] And so it is a funny turnabout for her to be like, yeah, I have a boyfriend.

[22:00] That's why I was trying to brush you off.

[22:02] Like you didn't have to like go through all that.

[22:04] But she didn't even clarify that.

Stuart Wellington

[22:06] She's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[22:07] Just tell my boyfriend I'm okay.

Dan McCoy

[22:09] But it's a good antidote to movies that are like, well, you know, the guy rescued her.

[22:15] So now they're together, I guess.

Stuart Wellington

[22:17] Guys, if you're enough of a pest to the point that you will defeat a criminal organization.

Dan McCoy

[22:23] Yeah, no, it's a wild, funny, fun movie.

Stuart Wellington

[22:27] So that was The Ambulance.

[22:29] Now, Larry Cohen, as we mentioned, has a huge, has a pretty big career as both a writer and a director.

[22:37] And I want to talk a little bit about some of these movies, both that primarily focusing on things that he's written,

[22:42] but ideally things that he's both written and directed.

[22:44] And I've collected a collection of trailers kind of going through his career.

[22:49] Now, I think one of the big ones is the It's Alive series.

[22:53] Now, have you guys seen any of the It's Alive movies?

Dan McCoy

[22:56] I've seen It's Alive.

[22:57] I've not seen any sequels to It's Alive.

Elliott Kalan

[23:00] I've seen It's Alive and the two sequels, but I strangely, actually, maybe I've never seen the second one.

[23:05] It's Alive I know very well.

[23:07] And It's Alive 3, Island of the Alive, I remember very well.

[23:10] But It's Alive.

[23:11] It lives again, the second one.

[23:12] Maybe I haven't seen it, actually.

[23:13] Now, all-

[23:14] Because I don't really remember it.

[23:15] But why would I see the third one?

[23:17] Probably it's whatever was showing on Monster Vision.

Stuart Wellington

[23:20] Obviously, the premise of this one is, what if a baby but scary, right?

[23:25] And also, I got to say, this is a perfect example of how I feel like Larry Cohen's movies also all have banger posters.

[23:35] Yes, this is a great poster.

[23:36] Yeah, the poster for It's Alive, and then the poster for It's Alive 3, Island of the Alive, which is the same baby bassinet just sitting on a beach.

Dan McCoy

[23:45] Now, since this is not a visual medium, perhaps you can say what the poster is.

Stuart Wellington

[23:50] That's what I just said.

[23:51] It's a baby bassinet shot from behind.

[23:54] It's the exact same one that's on the cover of the original It's Alive movie.

[24:00] Well, we didn't even clarify that.

Elliott Kalan

[24:01] No, we should do the first one.

[24:02] So, the first movie, there's a baby bassinet, and there's kind of like a claw coming out of it.

[24:06] Yeah.

[24:06] And it's got one of the all-time great movie taglines.

[24:09] There's only one thing wrong with the Davis baby.

[24:12] And then at the bottom, it's alive.

[24:14] Like, what a great-

[24:16] There's only one thing wrong with it.

[24:17] It's literally that it's alive because it's a monster.

[24:20] But it's such a good poster.

Stuart Wellington

[24:22] It's a perfect movie poster because it raises just as many questions as it answers.

Dan McCoy

[24:27] Yeah.

[24:28] Like, what is it?

Stuart Wellington

[24:29] Yeah.

[24:29] What is it?

[24:30] Okay.

[24:30] A baby.

Dan McCoy

[24:32] Oh, okay.

[24:33] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[24:33] So, why don't we fire up some of these trailers?

[24:36] If you guys are familiar with the first It's Alive, we don't necessarily need to see that trailer.

[24:40] Okay.

[24:41] Yeah, yeah.

[24:41] It's great, but it is mainly clips from the movie.

[24:45] The next two trailers are actually much shorter.

[24:48] Let's just do the second and third one just because you've got a lot of other trailers here.

[24:51] Okay.

S7

[24:54] The It's Alive baby is back again.

[24:56] Only now there are three of them.

S4

[24:58] It lives again.

S7

[25:03] It's Alive Part 3.

[25:05] Island of the Alive.

[25:06] Don't see it alone.

[25:11] Okay, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[25:12] So, that It's Alive.

[25:13] So, that It's Alive again, that It Lives Again trailer is…

[25:18] It's a work of art.

[25:19] It was…

[25:20] That's maybe the most perfunctory trailer I've ever seen.

[25:23] I've ever seen.

[25:23] Yeah.

[25:24] I mean…

[25:24] It just goes, hey, remember the It's Alive baby?

[25:26] Well, there's three of them now.

[25:28] Yeah.

[25:28] It Lives Again, the movie.

Dan McCoy

[25:30] Go see it.

[25:30] And then you see a cake with a little claw footprint in it.

[25:35] I love that.

[25:36] And then…

[25:37] So…

[25:38] But I love It's Alive 3, the trailer, because I had no idea this is where the series went.

[25:44] Yeah.

[25:44] It starts off with, hey, remember those babies?

[25:47] I mean, like, again, it's like, hey, those babies, where do we put them?

[25:50] We put them on an island.

Elliott Kalan

[25:53] Because the crazy thing about that movie is…

[25:55] So, the babies are growing up.

[25:56] They're older now.

[25:57] Yeah.

[25:57] And they're on this island, but they still look like giant babies.

[26:00] Like, they're still…

[26:01] You know, they don't become grown-ups.

[26:02] Interesting.

[26:03] You know, they're still baby monsters.

[26:04] But they're bigger.

Stuart Wellington

[26:05] And so, just real quick, the premise of It's Alive is that it's a…

[26:13] That, like, medical experimentation has been causing babies to be born monsters, right?

[26:22] Mm.

[26:23] Okay.

[26:23] I'm trying to remember.

[26:24] I don't…

Elliott Kalan

[26:24] Is it…

[26:25] I think…

[26:25] I thought it was waste of some kind.

[26:27] I thought it was like…

[26:28] It was…

[26:29] I can't remember exactly how it happened.

Dan McCoy

[26:30] I remember that they go down to, like, they're in the sewers or viaducts.

Elliott Kalan

[26:34] Well, eventually, the baby gets into the sewers.

Stuart Wellington

[26:37] Well, the baby's using the sewers to travel around the city.

[26:40] Yes.

[26:40] Because the baby…

Elliott Kalan

[26:41] Even though the baby is a newborn, it has an intense understanding of public municipal infrastructure.

[26:46] Yes.

[26:47] The baby has claws and sharp teeth.

[26:49] And what's good…

[26:50] So, what I like in that movie is that the dad is like, we've got to kill this thing.

[26:54] But then when he's confronted with it, he's like, this is my child, you know?

[26:58] And it's kind of goofy and silly.

[27:00] But the second one, I don't think I have seen, but there's more of them.

[27:04] Is it from…

[27:04] Sorry.

Stuart Wellington

[27:05] And they do have…

[27:06] I think the later ones have Michael Moriarty.

[27:08] Or is he in the first one as well?

[27:09] I mean, he seems to be a Larry Cohen…

[27:11] He's a…

Elliott Kalan

[27:11] He's a Larry Cohen special.

[27:13] He's in a lot of…

[27:13] He's in Q.

[27:14] He's in a lot of Larry Cohen stuff.

Dan McCoy

[27:15] Oh, yeah.

[27:16] Yeah.

[27:16] Apologies.

[27:16] Well, I was going to say it's the doctor who prescribed the contraceptive pills I'm reading off the Wikipedia right now.

[27:22] Oh, that's what it is.

[27:23] Is contacted by an executive of a pharmaceutical company who acknowledges that the Davis' child's mutation may have been caused by the drugs.

Stuart Wellington

[27:31] Yeah.

[27:31] So, again, we have some regular Larry Cohen touchstones.

[27:35] We have a seemingly normal thing is now scary.

[27:38] But also the element of like big business or whatever is conspiring against you.

[27:44] There's this conspiracy element.

Elliott Kalan

[27:46] Like he's got a…

[27:47] He likes having a satirical bent to things, you know, or a…

[27:51] Or to take on…

[27:51] Like The Stuff is another one of his that's pretty much like that.

[27:54] Maybe we'll talk about that later.

[27:55] I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[27:56] Yeah, of course.

[27:57] Now, yeah.

[27:59] So, that's It's Alive.

[28:00] I feel like that was…

[28:02] That was kind of one of his earlier movie…

[28:04] One of his early hits.

Elliott Kalan

[28:07] Yes.

[28:07] I think that was his first one that was like a big hit.

[28:10] And the…

[28:11] Oh, no.

[28:11] You know what?

[28:12] I wonder if Black Caesar was his first big hit.

[28:15] But…

[28:15] Yeah.

[28:15] Black Caesar was before It's Alive, I believe.

[28:17] Yeah, because he started more of Blacksploitation stuff.

[28:20] But It's Alive.

[28:21] The crazy thing about it is that Bernard Herrmann does the score for it.

[28:24] And it's one of his last scores.

[28:26] And you listen to it.

[28:27] And there's so much in it that sounds like the Taxi Driver score, which was his last score,

[28:31] which he did pretty much right afterwards.

[28:33] And there's part of me that's like, how did he…

[28:35] Like, how did Larry…

[28:36] Like, how did Larry Cohen get Bernard Herrmann to do this score for it?

[28:40] He's like…

[28:41] He's like…

Elliott Kalan

[28:41] Well, you worked with Hitchcock.

[28:42] You worked…

[28:43] You know, you're one of the all-time greats.

[28:44] You're getting towards the end of your life.

[28:46] Do you want to do this Killer Baby movie?

Dan McCoy

[28:48] I got this Killer Baby.

[28:50] Said that, I'm imagining Larry Cohen, like, hanging out outside, you know, the recording

[28:54] studio being like, hey, if you got any casts off from Taxi Driver, any tracks you're not

[28:57] going to use, we'll just put it in It's Alive, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[29:00] I mean, that's my theory is I don't know the timeline of it, but I wonder if he was already

[29:04] doing Taxi Driver and he was like, yeah, I'll take this other job.

[29:07] Why not?

[29:08] Here's some stuff I did for Taxi Driver, but you can use it now.

[29:11] Okay, so we're going to move on.

[29:12] Oh, and we mentioned that it was…

[29:14] The Baby was created by Rick Baker.

[29:16] So there's a lot of good stuff working on this.

[29:18] A lot of good people working on It's Alive.

Stuart Wellington

[29:20] I want to go to one of his next movies.

[29:24] This is a movie called God Told Me To.

[29:26] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[29:27] This is a nice short little trailer.

[29:28] This is what I've heard a lot about, but I've never seen it, and I've been meaning to watch

[29:30] it for a while.

[29:32] But I just, I got to mention again, just if anyone's…

[29:35] To see that short trailer for It Lives Again, it's just totally worth it for the read of

[29:40] the voiceover guy, which is like, hey, there's three of them now.

Stuart Wellington

[29:44] And it's so funny because it begins, like it shows a birthday cake, Monster Claw slaps

[29:49] the shit out of that cake.

[29:51] Yeah.

[29:51] And we get the voiceover, we see the bassinets, and then the camera just pans back down to

[29:55] that birthday cake and it's like, what do you expect?

Dan McCoy

[29:59] I, like this is like an early version of like James Cameron walking in and adding an S to

[30:06] Alien.

[30:07] Yeah.

[30:07] What if there's three It's Alive babies?

Elliott Kalan

[30:10] I mean, they should have called it It's Alives.

[30:12] That would have been great.

Stuart Wellington

[30:12] I mean, They're Alive, I feel like is too thoughtful.

Elliott Kalan

[30:18] Yeah.

[30:19] Implies too much, too much work.

[30:21] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[30:22] Okay.

[30:22] So should we watch this next trailer?

[30:23] Yeah.

[30:23] Let's fire up God Told Me To.

[30:25] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[30:33] God Told Me To.

[30:37] Whoa.

[30:42] I told him to.

Dan McCoy

[30:44] Now, Stuart.

Stuart Wellington

[30:46] I do want to point out it was released in some theatrical markets as Demon.

[30:50] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[30:51] I have seen God Told Me To, but re-watching that trailer right now, I was like, I don't

[30:56] remember any of this.

[30:58] I don't remember.

[30:59] I can't even remember.

[31:01] I think the ultimate solution is, I don't think God is actually telling them to, but I

[31:06] forget the details.

Elliott Kalan

[31:07] No, there's somewhere, there's somewhere, it's aliens are involved somehow.

[31:11] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[31:12] Spoiler.

[31:13] This was, this was one that, yeah, no, I really wanted to see this one in particular because

[31:18] to me, that's such a creepy idea.

[31:22] In Larry Cohen's book of great ideas, like, killers who are all just like, God told me to, like,

[31:29] that's alarming because, you know, it puts such a, I mean, I don't know, I don't, you

[31:36] don't see in movies, you know, that sort of distrust of religion because there's too much

[31:43] fear of telling that story.

[31:45] You know, you want a wide appeal thing, you're going to offend a big group of people maybe

[31:51] doing it that way.

[31:52] And, uh, I don't know.

[31:54] I find that a very effective idea.

Stuart Wellington

[31:56] Well, especially because it, like, it, it puts it, I mean, it puts it in the title.

[32:00] Yeah.

[32:01] Now, this is a, I mean, I feel like this is an element of, like, tying in with a, like,

[32:06] a rip from the headlines fear of mass shootings and, uh, and killer and, like, serial killers

[32:12] who are, uh, motivated by religion.

[32:16] Um, I love that it's more, like, grimy New York crap.

[32:20] Uh, I feel like, uh, I feel like we lost a little something.

[32:25] We don't have as many grimy New York movies.

Elliott Kalan

[32:27] I mean, New York is less grimy, certainly.

[32:29] So that's, that's why there's less grimy New York movies.

Dan McCoy

[32:32] Maybe you're not going to the good parts.

[32:33] There are fewer, I think, movies, um, at least at this level that are shooting, you know,

[32:41] on location, too, is a lot of it.

[32:42] There used to be, that's true.

Elliott Kalan

[32:44] And in the, in this period, too, it was also very easy to shoot a movie in New York.

[32:48] Like, the city made it very easy to do so, which meant that a lower budget production

[32:51] like this, uh, could, could do it, could, could shoot in New York much more easily.

[32:57] And they're also like the, I, so, uh, Larry Cohen was on, uh, Gilbert Gottfried's amazing

[33:03] colossal podcast at least once.

[33:05] And he would talk about how they would just go do stuff.

[33:07] You know, they just like, if there's a scene with a sniper, they're not, they don't worry

[33:11] about that, especially the way he did it.

[33:12] They would just go and like shoot this scene in Times Square or whatever.

[33:15] And not, and not really worry about, uh, permits or things like that.

[33:18] Yeah.

[33:19] And just let normal people deal with the fact that this was going on, you know.

[33:22] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[33:22] Is this the one where they stole a bunch of parade footage or is that Q?

[33:26] Like one of them, they like shot in the middle of a parade and they were just like, yeah,

[33:29] we're here.

[33:29] It's fine.

[33:30] Like, yeah, that was the way it used to be.

[33:33] It's great.

Elliott Kalan

[33:33] That's looking at Wikipedia right now.

[33:35] I didn't realize that Bernard Herrmann almost scored this movie as well, but he died.

[33:40] And God told him to come home.

[33:44] It says, according to Wikipedia, Cohen then asked composer Miklos Rosa to score the film.

[33:48] Rosa turned it down saying, God told me not to.

[33:51] Amazing.

Stuart Wellington

[33:52] That's a good bit.

[33:53] Um, I feel like this is a perfect time to take a little break and, uh, have a word from

[33:57] the Flophouse sponsors.

[34:00] Uh, who's first?

[34:01] You are.

[34:02] Oh, perfect.

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[34:24] I can't tell you enough how, uh, how huge an effect, uh, manicuring and taking care of my, uh,

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[34:36] Um, and the, I also cannot stress enough how useful it is to have a, uh, what, uh, uh, uh, uh,

[34:45] shaver for down there that has a built-in flashlight.

[34:48] It's very useful.

[34:49] You wouldn't expect it to be the case.

Dan McCoy

[34:51] I was not aware that was a feature, but that makes sense.

[34:53] In case you're doing it under the covers in the bed?

Stuart Wellington

[34:55] Uh, I feel like, I mean, I don't know about you, but my stuff generates some shadow.

[35:01] Okay.

[35:02] Um, so what, uh, and, and the latest, uh, uh, Lawnmower 5.0, uh, features multiple, uh,

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[35:20] That's right, Elliot.

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[35:34] Yes.

[35:34] Super scraggly.

Dan McCoy

[35:36] I've known for my unkempt beard.

Stuart Wellington

[35:37] Uh, okay.

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Dan McCoy

[35:51] And now for some tonal whiplash with these ads, Mother's Day is coming up.

Elliott Kalan

[35:57] Dan, Dan, a pot, a properly groomed man's body is not a bad present for some mothers.

Dan McCoy

[36:03] Hey, that's a, yeah, a gift for some mothers from their spouses, not from progeny.

[36:08] Come on, get your mind out of, anyway.

[36:11] You said it, not me.

[36:12] We should probably, uh.

Elliott Kalan

[36:14] I was, I was, I was just thinking people in a relationship, but sure.

[36:19] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[36:20] Anyway, Mother's Day is coming up, everyone.

[36:23] You want to win your mother's, uh, day?

[36:26] I don't know why you have to turn into a competition between you and your siblings for your mother's

[36:30] love, but, you know, sometimes perhaps that's the way it is.

[36:33] There's only so much love, Dan.

[36:35] There's only so much love to go around.

[36:37] And, uh, why not win your mother's heart with a beautiful.

Elliott Kalan

[36:40] I'll quote, I'll quote Hanson.

[36:43] Where's the love?

[36:44] It's not enough.

[36:45] Anyway, continue.

Dan McCoy

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Elliott Kalan

[38:40] Hey everybody.

[38:40] Hey, everybody.

[38:40] Hey, listeners.

[38:41] We've also want to promote some flop house stuff.

[38:43] When this episode is released, which is right now, we'll still be in the streaming window,

[38:47] which we are right now for our current streaming video release, the flop house syncs speed to,

[38:52] this is our online live video release of a live show that we did.

[38:56] It operates like our battlefield earth show from last year.

[38:59] You buy a ticket.

[39:00] You can watch this show at your leisure as many times as you want until May 19th.

[39:05] That's when it goes away back to the gray havens only to be enjoyed by elves and so forth.

[39:11] It's a super fun show.

[39:13] Stan Stewart and I did all new presentations for it.

[39:15] We talked about speed too, which is a super fun movie.

[39:18] It's just a movie.

[39:18] It's a movie that just, it does not work, but should work, but kind of works, but doesn't work.

[39:24] And we had a lot of fun talking about it.

[39:27] Go to stagepilot.com slash speed.

[39:29] You can see the trailers to see for yourself.

[39:31] You can buy tickets for the show.

[39:32] You can buy a flop house VIP experience.

[39:34] We get to talk to us through your computer where you can buy exclusive flop house merchandise.

[39:37] That's only available from stage pilot during the streaming window.

[39:40] And if you saw the show when we performed it live last year, there's footage in this video that you didn't see.

[39:47] How is that possible?

[39:48] You'll have to go to stagepilot.com slash speed to find out, but you've only got until May 19th to see it.

[39:53] So don't miss your chance.

[39:56] Hey, something else you don't want to miss?

[39:58] That's also in May.

[39:59] Next month.

[40:00] Oh.

[40:00] Next.

[40:01] Tell me.

[40:02] Dan, do you not know?

[40:03] I'll tell you.

[40:04] I got so wrapped up.

[40:06] Dan, how would you like it if the flop house went to England?

Dan McCoy

[40:09] I would love it.

[40:10] What?

[40:10] As a member of the flop house, I would love to go to England.

Elliott Kalan

[40:13] Well, guess what, Dan?

[40:14] Because you're going.

[40:15] Because we're doing two shows on the night of May 24th in Oxford, England as part of the St. Audio Podcast Festival.

[40:20] Dan, were you aware of this or is this a surprise to you?

Dan McCoy

[40:23] You know what?

[40:24] I like to live every moment in the moment.

[40:29] And the past and the future are sort of a gauzy haze.

Stuart Wellington

[40:33] Yeah, it all kind of becomes one, right?

[40:35] Like you don't know.

[40:36] Time is different for Dan.

[40:39] That's true.

[40:39] Time is different for Dan.

[40:40] He's kind of like the aliens from Arrival.

Elliott Kalan

[40:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[40:43] Yeah, Dan is experiencing all moments at once and no moments at once.

Stuart Wellington

[40:47] And he communicates with ink blots like the fireworks from Dune 2.

Elliott Kalan

[40:51] Well, Dan, on May 24th, we'll be in Oxford, England doing two shows at 7 p.m.

[40:55] We're talking about The Avengers starring Uma Thurman and Ralph Fiennes from the 90s.

[41:00] And at 9 p.m.

[41:01] We'll be talking Spice World.

[41:03] And we're doing new presentations.

[41:04] It's going to be really fun.

[41:06] Question and answer session.

[41:06] All the stuff you see in a Flophouse live show.

[41:08] But this time, it's in England.

[41:10] And we're going to do our best to use the right words.

[41:12] We're going to say lorry instead of truck.

[41:13] We're going to say bin instead of garbage can.

[41:15] We're going to say England instead of America.

[41:17] All the words that we're supposed to say for different things.

[41:20] For tickets and more information, go to flophousepodcast.com slash events.

[41:24] And then scroll down slightly to the Oxford show listing.

[41:27] And then click on more info that will take you right to the ticket links for each individual show.

Dan McCoy

[41:33] You know, speaking of Dune, Arrakis is kind of a Spice World.

Stuart Wellington

[41:38] Yeah, no kidding.

[41:40] Yeah, pretty much.

[41:41] That's all.

Elliott Kalan

[41:43] Thanks.

[41:43] I feel like I haven't.

[41:44] Yeah, it's a Spice, Spice, Spice, Spice World, Dan.

[41:46] Thanks.

Stuart Wellington

[41:46] I mean, I haven't seen the movie Spice World yet.

[41:49] But I'm assuming the stars, the Spice Girls, make reference to Arrakis quite a bit.

Elliott Kalan

[41:54] Yeah, probably.

[41:55] I think it's all about how baby spice can fold space.

Dan McCoy

[41:59] Oh, that's how she can do it.

[42:01] They get their girl pop abilities from the spice malang.

[42:03] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[42:05] Hey, guys, guess what?

[42:06] We're also doing another live show this summer.

[42:08] Yay.

[42:09] What?

[42:10] In July.

[42:11] That's right.

[42:11] The month when both America and France celebrate their independence from things.

[42:16] Okay.

[42:18] We're going to be in Boston, Massachusetts.

[42:21] Just a few weeks after Independence Day, we'll be in the cradle of independence itself.

[42:25] Boston, Massachusetts at the WBUR city space, courtesy of WBR radio.

[42:30] We have not decided as of this recording what movie it's going to be, but it's going to be something exciting and something bad that we can make some jokes about.

[42:37] It's going to be super fun.

[42:39] We went to Boston years ago.

[42:40] We did some really fun shows there, and we're really glad to be back all these years later.

[42:44] I hear the goodwill hunting is especially good this season.

[42:47] The goodwill population has really exploded because it has no natural predators.

[42:50] So they've stopped enforcing the limits on how much goodwill you can bag.

[42:53] I'm looking forward to taking them some goodwill pelts after the show.

[42:56] Give them to my family.

[42:57] It'll be great.

[42:58] Just go hunting for that goodwill.

[42:59] For tickets, you can either go to wbur.org slash events slash 931089 slash the dash flop dash house dash live or Google the Flophouse and WBUR.

[43:12] Or perhaps maybe by the time this episode is up, Dan will have put a listing for it on flophousepodcast.com slash events.

[43:19] I bet he will.

[43:20] Yeah.

[43:20] Three great ways to see the Flophouse.

[43:22] Go to stagepilot.com slash speed to see us online on your computer or go to Oxford, England, May 24th.

[43:29] Or go to Boston, Massachusetts, America, July 26th.

[43:34] Go to flophousepodcast.com slash events for all the information on all of those shows.

S5

[43:44] Hi, this is Bizz, and this is the final season of One Bad Mother, a comedy podcast about parenting.

[43:51] This is going to be a year of celebrating all that makes this podcast and this community magical.

[43:58] I'm so glad that I found your podcast.

[44:01] I just cannot thank you enough for just being the voice of reason as I'm trying to figure all of this out.

S7

[44:09] Thank you, and cheers to your incredible show and the vision you had to provide this space for all of us.

S5

[44:14] This is still a show about life after giving life.

[44:17] And yes, there will be swears.

[44:19] You can find us on MaximumFun.org.

[44:23] And as always, you are doing a great job.

S6

[44:27] All right, class.

[44:29] Tomorrow's exam will cover the science of cosmic rays, the morals of art forgery, and whether or not fish can drown.

[44:34] Any questions?

[44:35] Yes, you in the back.

[44:37] Uh, what is this?

[44:39] It's the podcast Let's Learn Everything.

S7

[44:41] Where we learn about science and a bit of everything else.

[44:44] My name's Tom.

[44:45] I studied cognitive and computer science, but I'll also be your teacher for intermediate emojis.

S6

[44:49] My name's Caroline, and I did my master's in biodiversity conservation, and I'll be teaching you intro to things the British Museum stole.

Elliott Kalan

[44:56] My name's Ella.

[44:57] I did a PhD in stem cell biology, so obviously I'll be teaching you the history of fan fiction.

S7

[45:02] Class meets every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

S6

[45:05] So do I still get credit for this?

[45:07] No.

[45:09] Obviously not.

[45:10] No.

[45:11] It's a podcast.

Elliott Kalan

[45:13] And now back to our show with your host, Stuart Wellington.

Stuart Wellington

[45:17] Hey, this is Stuart Wellington, and we are talking about the films of Schlockmeister, Larry Cohen.

[45:25] We've talked about a couple of good ones.

[45:27] Now we're going to talk a little bit about Cue the Winged Serpent.

[45:29] Now, I feel like you guys are both familiar with this movie, right?

[45:33] I've seen this one, yeah.

[45:35] I feel like we almost don't need to pull up the trailer, although if you haven't seen it yet, you should check out the trailer at home, folks.

[45:40] So Cue the Winged Serpent, this stars a Carradine.

[45:45] Which one?

Elliott Kalan

[45:46] Well, it stars Michael Moriarty, basically, right?

[45:49] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[45:49] But one of the things that I love about the trailer is it highlights the Carradine-ness of it.

[45:54] Oh, does it?

[45:55] Well, David Carradine is in it, yeah, yeah.

[45:58] Who is, I think at the time, probably a bigger star than Michael Moriarty.

[46:02] Am I being an asshole saying that?

Elliott Kalan

[46:04] No, no.

[46:05] David Carradine had been the star of a television show.

Stuart Wellington

[46:07] Yeah, for sure.

[46:07] And the premise is that a giant flying dinosaur thing is flying around eating people in New York.

[46:15] That was summoned by a cult, right?

[46:17] Is that the-

Dan McCoy

[46:18] Oh, that Carradine.

[46:19] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[46:20] There's so many Carradines running around.

[46:22] There's only the three Carradines.

Elliott Kalan

[46:24] Yeah.

[46:25] So, yes, this is David Carradine, brother of Keith, son of John.

[46:31] Yeah, there's-

[46:31] What I always found funny about this movie is, so there's a giant dragon that was brought into existence because of an Aztec cult, right?

[46:38] Yeah.

[46:39] Q stands for Quetzalcoatl, or however you-

[46:41] But Quetzalcoatl is, I believe, a feathered serpent.

[46:44] And the monster in Q has no feathers.

[46:46] He's very much a reptilian dragon type.

[46:47] Mm-hmm.

[46:48] Which I think shows you how accurate the movie is striving to be at all times.

[46:53] But this is a-

[46:54] It's such a-

[46:55] It's such a-

[46:56] It's a weird combination of a movie because it's a very schlocky, kind of cheap-looking monster movie.

[47:00] I mean, there's great-

[47:01] There's stop-motion effects that I love in it.

[47:03] Yeah.

[47:03] But it is a-

[47:04] But in the middle of it, Michael Moriarty's performance, he is taking it so seriously at all times.

[47:09] Yes.

[47:09] Like, he is really performing the hell out of this movie when he really doesn't have to.

[47:13] And it feels so often as if you are ping-ponging between two movies, one about kind of like a low-level crime figure with nowhere to run, and one about a stop-motion dragon that is biting people's heads off.

Dan McCoy

[47:24] You know, is this a Samuel Arcoff production or whatever?

[47:28] Yes, it was, yeah.

[47:29] Because, okay, because I remember reading, and perhaps you've read this anecdote too, like Roger Ebert talked about running into Arcoff at like a film festival and being like,

[47:40] Q, what a surprise, like all that schlock, and in the middle, this great method performance from Michael Moriarty, and Arcoff said, the schlock was my idea.

Stuart Wellington

[47:51] Oh, that's great.

[47:52] Yeah.

[47:52] So this, I feel like this is a fun one, and it's a super weird one, but it still has Larry Cohen's fingerprints all over it.

[47:59] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[47:59] Yes.

[48:00] This is, I feel like this is Larry Cohen when he's really doing what he does best, which is like throwing together a mess of a movie that is surprising you all the time.

[48:09] You know, from moment to moment is not what you necessarily expect from it.

Stuart Wellington

[48:13] Relentlessly desires to entertain you.

[48:16] Yes.

[48:16] Does everything in its power.

[48:18] Yeah.

[48:19] So the next movie I want to talk about is one I definitely haven't seen, but I had to watch the trailer for.

[48:25] It's called Full Moon High from 1981.

[48:28] I think he just wrote it.

[48:29] I don't think he directed this one.

[48:31] Okay.

[48:32] But this came out, I got to point out, came out four years before Teen Wolf.

Elliott Kalan

[48:36] All right.

[48:37] Interesting.

[48:38] I'll buy it.

Dan McCoy

[48:38] Yeah, I got to see this trailer too, because I haven't seen it.

[48:40] I haven't seen this one.

[48:41] I haven't seen this movie.

S7

[48:45] Full Moon High.

[48:47] Okay.

[48:48] It's not just another teenage werewolf movie.

[48:53] It's a bite out on the town.

Elliott Kalan

[48:57] So Full Moon High is clearly, yeah, it's like a comedy werewolf teen movie.

[49:03] Now, this is years before Teen Wolf, but it is years after I was a teenage werewolf.

[49:07] Yes.

[49:08] Which is the movie that Teen Wolf is also pulling from.

[49:10] But I will say, Larry Cohen, sometimes ahead of his time, one of the things that, one of his legacies also is that he was one of the people that sued 20th Century Fox and Alan Moore when League of Extraordinary Gentlemen came out.

[49:23] Saying that they had stolen from his script, which was called Cast of Characters, and then hired Alan Moore to write a comic book series using that concept so that they could then base the movie on that.

[49:35] And the studio ended up settling, and Alan Moore was so pissed off about that.

[49:39] That's one of the reasons he removed his name from that movie was because he was, I mean, it's also a bad movie, but that he felt like he needed his day in court to prove that he would never be like a hired gun stealing someone else's idea.

[49:51] If he's going to steal someone else's idea, he's going to mention it in the comic, just like he did in Watchmen when he ripped off that Outer Limits episode.

[49:57] He mentions the Outer Limits episode in the comic.

[49:59] So Larry Cohen got Alan Moore mad at him, which is not that hard.

Dan McCoy

[50:03] Yeah.

[50:04] I wanted to issue a correction, too.

[50:06] I looked it up.

[50:07] Larry Cohen did direct this as well as writing it.

[50:09] Okay.

[50:10] This is a full Cohen.

Stuart Wellington

[50:12] Which, now, Larry Cohen doesn't do a lot of comedy, right?

Dan McCoy

[50:16] Well, yeah, not like straight comedy like this appears to be.

[50:20] Like this is really in the zany mode.

[50:23] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[50:23] I mean, I would say most of his movies have a comic edge at some point or another.

Stuart Wellington

[50:28] Yeah, of course.

[50:29] In some way.

[50:30] I feel like he often couches comedy.

[50:33] Like there's comedy and then he also manages to get a little bit of, you know, like cultural critique, satire in there.

Elliott Kalan

[50:41] So here he's critiquing the high school reliance on werewolves to win sports games.

Stuart Wellington

[50:46] Yeah.

[50:46] It looks very silly.

[50:48] I thought it was – it felt like such an outlier when looking at his filmography that I'm like, we have to talk about this a little bit.

Dan McCoy

[50:55] I mean, I definitely like ran to my letterbox to see what people are saying about Full Moon High and like whether I should add this to my watch list.

[51:02] It's a lower rating.

[51:04] It's a 2.6 overall.

[51:06] And letterbox tends to be people like me who are exuberant about movies.

[51:11] So it's a warning sign.

[51:13] But I'm still curious.

[51:14] I'm still curious.

Elliott Kalan

[51:15] You should look up, Dan, I think you should look up the poster for Full Moon High if you haven't already.

[51:21] Is there a butt involved?

Dan McCoy

[51:22] Is it a Full Moon in that sense?

[51:24] No, no.

[51:24] It's not.

Elliott Kalan

[51:25] It's very much a – it's very much a sub Jack Davis caricatures chasing each other.

[51:31] Yeah.

[51:31] Love it.

[51:32] Cover.

[51:32] Where it is a woman with a knife is chasing Adam Arkin as he turned into a wolf.

[51:36] And he has I Was a Teenage Werewolf written on his shirt.

[51:40] So they're reminding you of the other movie.

[51:42] But it's –

Dan McCoy

[51:42] Well, also, not just a woman.

[51:44] She's wearing a halter top and Daisy Dukes, of course.

[51:47] Sure, yes, of course.

[51:47] Because this is a, you know, a sexy –

[51:50] And what I also like –

Stuart Wellington

[51:51] And it even says on the tagline is he's today's teenage werewolf.

[51:56] Only the rules have changed.

Elliott Kalan

[51:58] I wonder if they're –

[51:59] I wonder what the rules are.

Stuart Wellington

[52:00] I don't know what the rules are.

Elliott Kalan

[52:01] And what I like also is at the corner, in this one at least, there are a couple of bats flying in the air,

[52:06] which doesn't make sense for a werewolf.

[52:07] That's not a werewolf thing.

[52:09] Yeah, that's not a werewolf thing.

[52:09] I guess it's just a spooky thing, you know, just to have bats.

[52:11] There's a leftover on the page, yeah.

[52:14] Look, we were making a poster for a Dracula movie.

[52:16] It just has a moon and bats on it.

[52:18] Just make it a werewolf.

[52:19] No one's going to ask about the bats.

[52:20] It's fine.

Stuart Wellington

[52:21] So speaking of satires, I think the next movie we'll talk about is something I think we have all definitely seen,

[52:26] and that's The Stuff, right?

[52:28] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[52:29] The Stuff, which is like full-on kind of silly.

[52:33] Yeah, I would say that The Ambulance, maybe I just had such a great time in the movies or whatever,

[52:38] but like that may have edged out The Stuff, but The Stuff was my previous favorite Larry Cohen movie that I'd seen.

Stuart Wellington

[52:47] Elliot, do you have any, do you have a history with The Stuff?

Elliott Kalan

[52:51] Just, I mean, just having seen it, I wasn't involved in the making of it.

[52:54] I hadn't written any books about it.

Dan McCoy

[52:55] But you also, you own Stuff and you've seen Stuff around.

Elliott Kalan

[52:59] I do own Stuff.

[53:00] I'm familiar with George Carlin's Stuff routine, which is not about the movie The Stuff, but it's, I mean.

Dan McCoy

[53:05] Certain Oreos have double of it.

Elliott Kalan

[53:07] That's Stuff with one F, Dan.

[53:09] That's a different thing.

[53:10] That's Stoof.

[53:10] That's a different thing.

[53:11] Yeah.

[53:12] No, but I'm familiar with The Stuff, one of the few film appearances by Clara Peller from the Wendy's commercials.

Dan McCoy

[53:18] Now, for our listeners who may not be familiar with The Stuff, we should clarify that The Stuff is sort of a delicious goop that looks kind of like halfway.

[53:27] It looks like marshmallow fluff, kind of, right?

[53:29] Yeah.

[53:30] Yeah, but it is insidious in some way.

[53:33] It's an insidious thing that like kills you, turns into a blob.

[53:37] Yeah, it turns into sort of a blob.

[53:38] And then another great, weird performance by Michael Moriarty in it.

[53:42] Yeah, that's great.

[53:42] He shows up wearing a cowboy hat.

Elliott Kalan

[53:45] And it was, is it the stuff where one of the taglines was, enough is never enough at one point?

[53:52] Maybe.

[53:53] I think so, yeah.

[53:54] They start selling this white stuff everywhere and people love it and then it's killing them.

[53:58] Oh, the white stuff?

Dan McCoy

[53:59] The movie about the first astronauts who sent stuff into space?

[54:03] They were very white, all of them, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[54:05] Wasn't that a Weird Al parody as well?

[54:09] Oh, maybe.

[54:09] Based on the right stuff by New Kids on the Block?

Elliott Kalan

[54:12] I don't know if that was a real Weird Al one or just, or one that went around.

[54:16] Maybe it was, I don't know.

[54:17] About Oreos, right?

[54:18] Yeah.

[54:19] Maybe it is.

[54:20] Dan, you'll do, put our researchers on that.

[54:22] Yeah, get our researchers on that.

[54:23] I'm looking up the stuff poster.

Stuart Wellington

[54:25] The thing that I find kind of fascinating about the stuff is that by the start of the movie,

[54:29] this stuff is already super popular, right?

[54:34] I feel like it opens and the stuff is already this like popular everyday part of life that

[54:40] is, that we learn, as the movie goes on, becomes more terrifying.

Elliott Kalan

[54:46] But the best stuff about, the best parts are like the commercials and things like that,

[54:49] right?

[54:49] Yeah, it's great.

[54:50] And also Paul Sorvino as the like, the anti-stuff militia leader.

Dan McCoy

[54:53] Yeah, yeah, that's great too.

[54:55] Well, and yeah, again, Michael Moriarty just doing weird shit.

Stuart Wellington

[55:01] It's definitely a movie that I remember seeing the cover for and the, or the poster was very

[55:06] scary.

[55:06] A guy's face is all like melty off and stuff.

[55:08] It's coming out of his eyes and things like that.

Dan McCoy

[55:10] I would like to read the tagline for the stuff, which is one of these old movie poster taglines.

[55:16] It's several paragraphs long, so bear with me.

[55:19] But it goes like this.

[55:21] If you see the stuff in stores, call the police.

[55:25] If you have it in your home, don't touch it.

[55:27] Get out.

[55:29] The stuff is a product of nature, a deadly living organism.

[55:33] It is addictive and destructive.

[55:35] It can overcome your mind and take over your body.

[55:38] And nothing can stop it.

[55:40] The stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[55:41] Which is so much information.

[55:43] It's so much information and it is not necessary.

[55:46] Because when you see the stuff and you see a guy and there's goop coming out of his eyes

[55:49] and his mouth, you're like, I guess I got a pretty good idea of what the stuff is referring

[55:52] to, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[55:53] Yeah, like I probably shouldn't touch it.

[55:54] Oh, that's the stuff.

[55:55] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[55:56] Oh, that's the stuff.

[55:57] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[55:58] I mean, I don't know if seeing that picture will indicate that that is found in nature.

[56:03] Yes, that's true.

[56:03] You don't know it's a deadly living organism.

[56:05] But arguably that should be a reveal of some kind.

[56:07] Yeah, that should be a reveal.

[56:08] If the poster's telling you, maybe that's not cool.

[56:11] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[56:11] Oh, that's the other tagline was, are you eating it or is it eating you?

[56:14] That was the other one.

Stuart Wellington

[56:16] Yeah.

[56:16] That's a good tagline.

Elliott Kalan

[56:17] That's a good.

[56:17] That's what you put on the poster.

[56:19] Not this long, epic poem about what the stuff is.

Stuart Wellington

[56:22] We'll skip over a Return to Salem's Lot, considered to be kind of a wacky one.

Dan McCoy

[56:28] Yeah, I've never seen it.

[56:29] Honestly, I've not even seen the original Salem's Lot, which everyone speaks well of.

[56:35] I also haven't seen it, yeah.

[56:37] I tried to watch it.

[56:38] I'm like, this TV pacing of the time isn't working for me.

[56:41] I can't.

Stuart Wellington

[56:41] So let's talk about the Maniac Cop series, which is, again, it's going on with Larry

[56:46] Cohen's idea, like with the stuff it's like, what if a marshmallow fluff was scary?

[56:51] In this case, he's like, what if a cop was a maniac?

[56:54] And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, Larry, but let me show you some statistics that are kind of

[56:58] disturbing.

[56:58] I figured this was going to come up at some point, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[57:02] Stuart, I want to push back just slightly on the idea that Larry Cohen's thing is, what

[57:05] if this but scary?

[57:06] Because that could describe many horror films.

Stuart Wellington

[57:09] That's fair.

[57:10] But I feel like he has a way of finding specific, there's a specific close at hand, innocuous

[57:16] thing that people would look for comfort.

Elliott Kalan

[57:19] I think he's good at finding a nerve that can be hit.

[57:22] Yeah.

[57:23] This is the scary thing that maybe you didn't expect.

[57:26] Yeah, that's true.

Stuart Wellington

[57:27] Have you guys seen the Maniac Cop movies?

Dan McCoy

[57:30] I definitely have seen at least Maniac Cop.

[57:33] I don't remember it that well, but I have seen it.

[57:35] Okay, well, part two is the best one.

Stuart Wellington

[57:37] Okay.

[57:37] You guys, why don't we fire up this trailer?

[57:40] Do you guys want to watch either?

[57:42] The first Maniac Cop trailer is great.

[57:44] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[57:51] Maniac Cop.

[57:55] No.

[57:57] Maniac Cop.

Stuart Wellington

[58:01] Maniac Cop.

[58:02] Now, obviously, I'm sure you guys notice it stars one of my favorite actors of all time,

[58:06] Tom Atkins.

Dan McCoy

[58:08] Yeah.

[58:09] Well, yes.

[58:10] We will address Tom Atkins, but also it stars Robert Zadar.

[58:13] There's a part at which the narrator says, like, you don't remember his face or something

[58:19] like, what?

[58:20] The Maniac Cop is Robert Zadar.

[58:22] If there's one thing memorable, you will remember his face.

[58:24] He's a distinctive looking man.

[58:26] It's a very distinct.

Elliott Kalan

[58:26] His face is his main thing.

[58:28] There's also the fact that they're like, no one knows, in the trailer, like, no one knows

[58:31] his name.

[58:32] No one knows his face.

[58:33] And I'm like, then how do they know he's a cop?

[58:35] Wait a minute.

[58:36] Are his victims being, like, are they finding, like, cop juice on the victims?

[58:42] Yeah.

[58:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[58:42] They check the scat.

Dan McCoy

[58:44] But I apologize.

[58:45] Back to Tom Atkins, of course.

Stuart Wellington

[58:46] Tom Atkins.

[58:48] Tom Atkins.

[58:49] I love the guy, you know, from Night of the Creeps, from Halloween 3, season of The Witch.

[58:56] Yeah, he's just so fun.

[58:58] I love that guy.

[58:59] And, of course, it's got Bruce Campbell in it.

[59:02] Everybody loves-

[59:03] He looks like such a baby face in it.

[59:04] He's so young.

[59:04] He's a baby face Bruce Campbell.

[59:06] You got Robert Zadar.

[59:07] I feel like Maniac Cop 2 gets a little bit crazier and also features another great Robert.

[59:13] Robert Davi.

Dan McCoy

[59:15] What a cavalcade of great, like, genre performers.

Stuart Wellington

[59:18] So many Roberts.

Elliott Kalan

[59:20] Yeah.

[59:21] Davi versus Zadar.

Stuart Wellington

[59:24] Yeah, but I, again, this is, you know, it's grimy New York.

[59:29] It's leaning into some classic.

[59:32] It's leaning into, like, corruption and the idea of a conspiracy.

[59:37] Like, City Hall is, like, trying to-

[59:39] There's a certain amount of protection going around, protecting the identity of this Maniac Cop, and then trying to find him.

[59:46] It's great.

[59:47] Thumbs up to Maniac Cop.

[59:48] So good they made three of them.

Dan McCoy

[59:50] I like that we're getting kind of a unified theory of Larry Cohen throughout this thing.

[59:55] Yeah, we're seeing-

Elliott Kalan

[59:55] I want to point out, this is a slightly different grimy New York, too.

[59:59] So that's what's exciting about getting into the Maniac Cop era, is that God told me, and some of the other ones, those are 70s, grimy New York.

[1:00:07] This is late 80s, early 90s, grimy New York.

[1:00:10] So this is the very last days of grimy New York.

[1:00:13] And it's just got a different feel to it, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:15] Yeah, the ambulance has kind of that same vibe.

[1:00:18] I mean, the ambulance came out in 1990.

[1:00:21] I think Maniac Cop was a year or two before that.

[1:00:25] Yeah, yeah.

[1:00:26] Maniac Cop's 88, according to this.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:28] I would have placed it earlier if I didn't know that it's late as 88.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:32] Okay.

[1:00:32] Late as 88.

[1:00:33] That was the tagline.

[1:00:34] Maniac Cop, late as 88.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:36] Didn't make much sense at the time, but now-

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:38] But now, in retrospect, for this conversation, it does make sense, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:42] Again, I feel like of the Maniac Cop movies, I feel like Maniac Cop 2 is probably the most fun of them.

[1:00:50] Put it on my list.

[1:00:53] But we're going to start jumping ahead.

[1:00:55] So we've talked a little bit about that era of Larry Cohen.

[1:00:59] I want to talk about, this is kind of a smaller one, and this isn't a feature film.

[1:01:04] I want to talk about the episode of Masters of Horror he directed, the episode Pick Me Up, which was actually one of my favorites.

[1:01:12] And certainly my favorite, again, it's a Larry Cohen thing, so it's got a big premise.

[1:01:15] But I think this premise is fucking great.

[1:01:19] Why don't we watch that trailer?

S7

[1:01:21] You offer me a ride?

[1:01:23] That's the way it's supposed to go.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:26] The only question is which one of you is the bigger psycho?

[1:01:35] I'll tell you one thing I miss from that trailer.

[1:01:37] It's a fun trailer.

[1:01:39] I miss that voiceover narration already, that we're now in the era when they don't do voiceovers in trailers as much.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:45] Yeah, and I feel like that would have punched it up.

[1:01:48] So the premise of this is that a woman is on a bus that breaks down Country Road, and she ends up getting caught.

[1:01:55] Country Road is not taking her home.

[1:01:56] Oh, no.

[1:01:58] And she gets caught between two rival serial killers.

[1:02:02] You have Wheeler, played by Michael Moriarty, who is a truck driver who picks up people and kills them,

[1:02:07] and Walker, who is a hitchhiker who gets picked up and kills the people who picks them up.

[1:02:12] And I think that's such a fun, silly premise.

[1:02:14] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:14] Yeah, that's great.

[1:02:16] And I remember this well, of course, because we watched this back in the day, and we were transfixed.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:21] That was like a regular Stuart and Dan weekly thing.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:24] Yeah, it's true.

[1:02:24] We went to get together to watch episodes of Masters of Horror as they came out.

[1:02:29] And there's a line reading in here that we referenced a lot because it was so goofball where it's Michael Moriarty passing like – it's an advertisement for like a sideshow or whatever.

[1:02:42] It says Monster Babies or Baby Monster.

[1:02:46] And he goes, Baby Monster?

[1:02:48] You ever see one?

[1:02:49] Freak me out.

[1:02:51] Or creep me out or something like that.

[1:02:53] It's a weird-ass reading.

[1:02:56] I guess a reference to It's Alive kind of, too.

[1:03:00] Yeah.

[1:03:01] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:01] Yeah, it's fun.

[1:03:03] I feel like that whole – I mean, there's – not to do a deep dive in Masters of Horror, which would be a completely different podcast mini.

[1:03:12] But there's definitely some gems that came out of there, and I like this one quite a bit.

[1:03:17] And it's also – it came out pretty late.

[1:03:19] Like, this is a pretty late career Larry Cowan, but I still think it's a lot of fun.

[1:03:23] And then I just want to wrap it up.

[1:03:25] The next three movies that we can talk about relatively quickly, I mainly think are funny because these are all movies that he wrote.

[1:03:33] But you have Phone Booth, starring Colin Farrell, of course.

[1:03:38] Cellular, and then a movie called Messages Deleted.

[1:03:41] And I feel like it's so funny that it's three movies in a row that are all about phones.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:47] I mean, it makes sense for an elderly man.

[1:03:49] At this point, at that point, he was an aging man to be like, ah, these phones.

[1:03:53] Wait a minute.

[1:03:53] There's something there.

[1:03:55] Hold on.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:56] One of the things that's kind of great about Phone Booth is that it is set in New York, which is, again, this is a Larry Cohen thing.

[1:04:02] And also that it – from when he originally wrote the screenplay to when it was made, Phone Booths didn't exist anymore.

[1:04:10] So they had to make – they had to change the script to make it be like, this is the last Phone Booth in New York.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:16] Yeah.

[1:04:16] The Phone Booth is a movie that I remember – I haven't seen it since it was in the theaters, which is, you know, what, 10, 12 years ago now?

[1:04:23] Wow, more than that.

[1:04:25] I remember – oh, yeah, it must be more than that.

[1:04:28] It was like 20 years ago.

[1:04:30] Well, for the purpose of my self-esteem, let's say it was five years ago.

[1:04:35] But I remember watching it and it's a – oh, it was like 20 years ago.

[1:04:39] It's a really – it's a well-constructed thriller.

[1:04:45] You know, it's a – there's some parts in it that are super tense just because the character is so overwhelmed with stuff going on.

[1:04:51] The motivation of the bad guy in it I always thought was pretty weak.

[1:04:55] Like it's pretty – they're like, admit to your wife that you once had lustful thoughts for someone you work for.

[1:05:00] And it's like, that's – wait, that's the crime he committed that justifies like his being tested by a psycho, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:06] I feel like that's similar – that reminds me of some of Larry Cohen's other work in that it's like there's a rock-solid like premise.

[1:05:16] But like some of the motivation might not make the most sense, but that's okay.

[1:05:20] Well, you've seen movies before.

[1:05:21] Yeah, so you know what?

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:22] You're not really watching it to find out why the guy is being trapped in a phone booth.

[1:05:25] You just want to see him get trapped in a phone booth.

[1:05:27] Yeah.

[1:05:27] I want to briefly shine –

[1:05:28] It's screenwriting.

[1:05:29] You get your guy trapped in a phone booth.

[1:05:30] You throw rocks at him.

[1:05:31] Then you let him out of the phone booth.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:32] Also, I love the fact that this is a movie that posits a world where Colin Farrell could play a guy named Stu, you know?

Dan McCoy

[1:05:40] I want to briefly shine a light on Cellular, which was directed by David R. Ellis, who did Final Destination 2 and Snakes on a Plane.

[1:05:47] And top-built cast, listen to this, Kim Basinger, Chris Evans, Jason Statham, William H. Macy.

[1:05:54] Bang.

[1:05:55] And I remember it being pretty fun too.

[1:05:58] Like Phone Booth got the attention and then Cellular came out after him and they're like, oh, phones again.

[1:06:03] Another phone movie, huh?

[1:06:04] But I remember being like a fun little movie.

[1:06:06] But what is Messages Deleted?

[1:06:08] That is the one that I have no context for.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:10] I also want to point out that Cellular was also – I think it's a – there's a remake that –

[1:06:16] Really?

[1:06:17] Yeah.

[1:06:17] There's a – it was a –

[1:06:20] Two-yeler.

[1:06:22] Tubular?

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:22] Like the bells?

[1:06:23] It was the sequel, Two-yeler.

[1:06:24] Then there was Three-yeler.

[1:06:25] And then –

[1:06:26] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:28] It's a movie called Connected, which I believe is – I want to say it's Korean.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:35] It's from Hong Kong.

[1:06:37] Hong Kong.

[1:06:37] It's Chinese.

[1:06:38] The IMDb synopsis for Messages Deleted.

[1:06:44] A screenwriting teacher is forced to live out the plot of a screenplay idea he stole from a student who now seeks revenge.

[1:06:51] Love this.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:52] I wonder what – it seems like Larry Cohen was just like, what's something that I would relate to if I was in that situation?

[1:06:59] Like the idea of writing a movie about a screenwriting teacher is very funny for someone who's reading a movie just for a long time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:04] It stars Matthew Lillard and Deborah Unger.

[1:07:07] Yeah.

[1:07:07] And it's directed by a guy named Rob Cohen, which I'm like, is that Rob Cohen's like B-movie alter ego?

[1:07:15] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:15] I'm looking – this appears to be his only directorial credit.

[1:07:18] He was – he's got other – he's like – he's the production assistant on Space Hunter Adventures in the Forbidden Zone.

[1:07:26] A writer of a few things.

[1:07:29] He's a second unit director for a lot of stuff, though.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:31] Okay.

[1:07:32] Well, maybe we'll have to track that down for a future Miss That Movie.

[1:07:35] So we did a little – we did a little career retrospective kind of with probably about as much attention as –

Dan McCoy

[1:07:43] I mean, this is great.

[1:07:45] Great stuff, Stuart.

[1:07:45] Sorry.

[1:07:46] I don't know why I interrupted your wrap-up to say that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:48] No, I like this sport.

[1:07:50] That's the thing.

[1:07:50] That's kind of why I came to you guys is so that you guys could tell me that I'm great.

[1:07:54] You know, validation is really helpful, guys.

[1:07:58] So any final thoughts?

[1:08:01] Does this make – does looking through his career make you want to revisit any of his older movies?

[1:08:06] Does it make you want to – does it make you miss things from older movies?

Dan McCoy

[1:08:12] I mean, for the listener at home, I'm not lying when I'm saying I'm adding stuff to my watch list.

[1:08:19] I have Letterboxd stuff.

[1:08:21] I'm looking at messages deleted, which is actually got a higher score than Full Moon High.

[1:08:26] So maybe that's worth checking.

[1:08:27] Huh, interesting.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:28] Wait, got a higher score than Full Moon High?

[1:08:30] I know.

[1:08:31] Hold on.

[1:08:33] What's funny is until the end of that sentence, I thought you were going to be – it was going to be like a surprise.

[1:08:37] Like they got a higher rating than like Phone Booth or something.

[1:08:40] I'm like, oh, okay.

[1:08:41] Citizen Kane.

[1:08:42] Yeah, yeah.

[1:08:43] It's actually a number one on the Sight and Sound top ten list.

[1:08:46] Messages deleted.

[1:08:47] Amazing.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:48] I mean, I guess the –

[1:08:49] In the Mood for Love just came in right under it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:52] Sorry, Wong.

[1:08:54] Not this time.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:55] I guess the thing it gives me nostalgia for is something that we've talked about already a lot is there was, you know, like there was an earlier era where there were these movies, these scrappy, lower-budget movies with clever premises that could be in –

[1:09:11] In movie theaters.

[1:09:12] Whereas now you just don't get stuff filmmaking at that level that goes out into movies a lot unless it's an indie that, you know, I don't know, picks up enough festival interest that some distributor will put it out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:26] I mean, I mean, I think it's a movie like that would now end – the modern equivalent that will end up maybe on a streamer that you could possibly find if someone else recommends it to you or if you stumble on it.

[1:09:37] But, yeah, the era when movie theaters – when towns had multiple movie theaters often and those movies – or in a city like New York, there were tons of them and they needed movies to fill those screens.

[1:09:47] And so you could – you had the – you had not just the access to but like the knowledge of these movies.

[1:09:56] Like you could open up the newspaper and see an ad or at the very least a listing for like Maniac Cop or Cue the Winged Circuit or something like that and then go to your movie theater and see it.

[1:10:05] And it's the stuff –

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:06] You take the newspaper and you're like, I want this.

[1:10:10] I want this one.

[1:10:11] The one with the bassinet.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:13] I want to see what's got that weird hand on that bassinet.

[1:10:17] But the – it's – like we talked before, like there's greater access to this type of stuff now but it's strangely harder to find.

[1:10:24] Like and it does make me wish that there was more of that world where the kind of – you have like that – let's say there's four tiers of movies.

[1:10:33] There's like your top big budget movies that are meant to be big hits.

[1:10:36] Then there are the like smaller budget movies that studios make.

[1:10:39] Then there's like the high independence where often it's schlock and that's where you've got like Roger Corman or maybe Larry Cohen.

[1:10:45] And then under that is grindhouse kind of crap, you know, like the sewage.

[1:10:50] And at this –

[1:10:51] Well, that's – there's some good movies to there.

[1:10:54] There are good movies.

[1:10:54] That's true.

[1:10:55] That's true.

[1:10:56] That's fair.

[1:10:57] But now it feels like those middle two levels don't really exist anymore.

[1:11:01] The kind of middle budget big studio movies and the higher budget.

[1:11:05] Kind of schlocky independence.

[1:11:07] So you either have – you're either watching Argyle or you're watching some snuff movie someone made in their house that's supposed to look like found footage.

[1:11:16] And there's very little in between it feels like.

[1:11:18] Yeah, okay.

[1:11:19] Obviously, what I'm saying is a huge generality and overstatement.

[1:11:23] It's not really fully true.

[1:11:25] It's just the way it feels at the moment, you know.

[1:11:27] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:28] Okay.

[1:11:28] Well, I think this has been a lot of fun.

[1:11:30] Thanks for going on this trip with me.

[1:11:32] Again, if you want to watch any of the trailers of the movies we talked about, you can find most of them on IMDb.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:38] I will, of course, take these links and put them in the show notes for this to – sorry, Stuart, I keep calling you by each other's names today.

[1:11:49] We're the same in a lot of ways.

[1:11:51] Well, no.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:51] Stuart and I had a call me by your name situation.

[1:11:54] So it's okay.

[1:11:55] We call each other by each other's names.

[1:11:56] Yeah.

[1:11:56] It's okay.

[1:11:56] Oh, man.

[1:11:58] No, I will –

[1:11:59] I haven't seen that movie yet.

[1:12:00] Fan art, please.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:01] Fan art.

[1:12:02] I haven't seen it yet.

[1:12:03] That's the one where they pee in a fountain and they switch bodies, right?

[1:12:06] There is a prominently placed fountain in one seat.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:09] What I was trying to say was Stuart, of course, compiled this list.

[1:12:13] So the work has been done.

[1:12:14] I will just put these links in the show notes.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:17] Okay.

[1:12:18] So thanks again for joining us.

[1:12:20] This has been hopefully not too much of a pain to edit for Mr. Alexander Smith.

[1:12:25] You can find him as Howell Daugherty on various social media.

[1:12:28] He's the best and he does a lot of great work for us here at the Flophouse.

[1:12:32] You can find us and other great shows over at MaximumFun.com.

[1:12:37] Maximum Fun is our network.

[1:12:38] They put out a lot of great comedy and culture podcasts.

[1:12:41] Dot org.

[1:12:41] My mistake.

[1:12:42] Sorry.

[1:12:43] I've been Stuart Wellington.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:45] I've been Dan McCoy, the dot org corrector.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:49] I'm Elliot Kalin, just amazed that Dan is still using his superpower of correcting dot org dot

[1:12:54] mix-ups.

[1:12:55] I thought, he said to me, I have this power now, I'm going to be a hero.

[1:12:58] And I said, what situations is that going to be useful in?

[1:13:01] And yet it continues to be useful all the time.

[1:13:03] I think you're mean dot pizza.

[1:13:06] Whenever internet domain names are misspoken, the dot org corrector swoops in.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:12] Okay.

[1:13:14] Whatever.

[1:13:15] Bye.

[1:13:24] Maximum Fun.

S7

[1:13:25] A worker-owned network.

[1:13:26] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:13:28] Supported.

[1:13:29] Directly.

[1:13:30] By you.

FH Mini 102 - The Films of Larry Cohen

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