FH Mini 103 - Siskel & Ebert, with Matt Singer

[0:00] Hey there floppers, this is Elliot speaking.

[0:02] Before we begin this week's,

[0:03] let's be nice and call it nonsense.

[0:05] I just wanted to make sure you knew

[0:06] about the live show stuff we have coming up

[0:09] in case you miss it later in the episode

[0:11] or just can't wait to hear about it.

[0:13] We are still in the streaming window

[0:14] for The Flophouse Sinks Speed 2,

[0:16] our virtual online video event.

[0:18] Just go to stagepilot.com slash speed

[0:21] and you'll be able to see that whole show

[0:23] with exclusive footage that the in-theater audience

[0:26] didn't get to see through May 19th.

[0:29] After May 19th, of course,

[0:30] it goes back to The Flophouse Vault

[0:32] where it will never be seen again for a long time.

[0:35] Then on May 24th, we will be in Oxford, England

[0:38] as part of the St. Audio Podcast Festival.

[0:40] We're doing two shows in one night, 7 p.m. and 9 p.m.,

[0:43] two totally different shows, totally different movies,

[0:45] totally different presentations,

[0:46] totally different questions.

[0:47] It'll be great.

[0:48] And then for something even more completely different,

[0:50] on July 26th, we will be in Boston in person

[0:53] at WBUR City Space.

[0:55] We don't know what movie we're doing yet,

[0:57] but it'll be a fun show.

[0:58] It's gonna be all new stuff.

[0:59] You're gonna love it.

[1:00] So that's The Flophouse Sink Speed 2

[1:02] streaming now in Oxford May 24th

[1:04] and in Boston July 26th.

[1:06] And now, on with our regular nonsense.

[1:09] ♪♪

[1:13] Hello and welcome to this Flophouse Mini.

[1:16] That's what we do every other week

[1:18] when we're not talking about a bad movie.

[1:21] We talk about kind of whatever we want to talk about.

[1:25] They're not the boss of us.

[1:26] We can do what we want, right, Dan?

[1:28] Yeah, unlike the regular episodes

[1:30] where the movies show up holding a gun

[1:31] and they're like, talk about me.

[1:33] And I'm like, I don't wanna.

[1:34] Honestly, if we wanted to, we could spend that time,

[1:37] you know, like, I don't know,

[1:38] ranking our favorite Ben & Jerry's flavors

[1:40] or something else.

[1:41] Damn.

[1:42] But we don't.

[1:43] Doughboys did it.

[1:45] So much of the fun.

[1:45] The scar giver, attention must be paid to the scar giver.

[1:50] Well, let's introduce ourselves

[1:51] so we all know who that was.

[1:52] I'm Dan McCoy.

[1:55] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[1:56] I'm Elliot Kalin, the last of the regular three.

[1:59] But who's this joining us today?

[2:00] Why, it's special guest.

[2:02] The scar giver.

[2:03] Oh, the scar giver.

[2:04] No, we have a critic and author, Matt Singer,

[2:08] specifically here in connection

[2:09] with his current blockbuster,

[2:12] number one bestselling book about movie reviewers.

[2:16] Well, this is what,

[2:17] I mean, I wanted to start off saying like,

[2:19] okay, the book, of course,

[2:21] is last year's opposable thumbs,

[2:23] How Siskel and Ebert Changed Movies Forever.

[2:26] And honestly, like,

[2:27] I would have asked Matt to be on earlier,

[2:29] but he was doing like Good Morning America.

[2:31] And I'm like, let him cool down from, you know,

[2:34] taking a press tour of real things

[2:37] before I bother him about our show.

[2:39] You're a real thing, Dan.

[2:41] Yeah, I guess that's true.

[2:42] I do have mass and matter.

[2:46] But anyway, I just like, it's a great book.

[2:49] I want to compliment Matt,

[2:51] not only because I fear that sometimes

[2:54] that he might be annoyed at me

[2:55] when I show up in his letterbox comments

[2:56] to argue something, but also-

[2:59] Oh, Matt nodding his head vigorously.

[3:01] No, shaking my head vigorously, the opposite.

[3:05] The exact opposite.

[3:07] While I may argue on letterbox,

[3:09] I do not argue at all with his writing ever

[3:11] because opposable thumbs is really great.

[3:15] Like I tore through it and I'm sort of amazed

[3:18] not only by the amount of research it must have taken,

[3:22] but also the skill it takes to then take that research

[3:25] and turn it into something that's sort of breezy to read.

[3:28] So thank you for writing a book that I was like,

[3:32] I got to get this book,

[3:33] and not just because I know this guy immediately.

[3:37] And while Dan might argue with you on letterbox,

[3:39] you're only going to see me come out

[3:41] when you are reviewing what like slimer-flavored

[3:44] potato chips on your Instagram.

[3:47] That's true.

[3:47] Which I'm like, I'm enraptured by this content.

[3:52] In addition to being an incredibly talented writer

[3:56] and critic, Matt is also of course a masochist.

[4:00] I was going to say a horrible masochist

[4:02] who loves punishing myself

[4:04] by eating the worst movie-related food, yes.

[4:08] Is that true?

[4:09] That has to be something that at a certain point

[4:10] you were like, why did I make this a thing that I do?

[4:13] Why?

[4:14] Yes, regularly.

[4:15] As a matter of fact, last night,

[4:16] I got a text at like 11 o'clock at night

[4:19] from our friend Griffin Newman, who texted me,

[4:22] and he's like, I am out on the If IHOP menu.

[4:26] And I was like, wait a minute, what?

[4:29] I thought he, now I knew that there was also

[4:32] a Baskin-Robbins If menu.

[4:35] I already knew about that.

[4:36] So I thought he made a mistake.

[4:37] I was like, oh, do you mean the Baskin-Robbins thing?

[4:39] Ah, very funny.

[4:40] He's like, no, there's an If one too.

[4:42] And he sent it to me, and this thing has blue pancakes

[4:46] with fruity pebbles and like vanilla mousse.

[4:49] It's got a French toast sandwich.

[4:52] It has a pizza omelet, which could be

[4:54] one of two different things, just based on the title.

[4:57] I mean, it is so, so much.

[5:00] Just every item is so.

[5:01] It looks like it was made specifically

[5:03] to punish me for something I did.

[5:06] And that, so yes.

[5:08] And that was one of those moments where I was like,

[5:09] how did this become a thing that I do?

[5:11] Because, and I have to do it by myself now,

[5:14] unless one of you guys wanna come,

[5:15] because Griffin, who came recently,

[5:18] and at least shared the IHOP Wonka menu with me,

[5:22] is already like, there's no way I'm putting

[5:23] any of these things in my mouth.

[5:25] So I'm in real trouble.

[5:27] I think Dan's health is doing pretty good these days.

[5:30] He's been doing a lot of yoga.

[5:32] You should do that shit with him.

[5:32] It's true, I've lost some weight,

[5:34] so maybe I should put it back on.

[5:35] I mean.

[5:36] Yeah, in the cause of If, yeah.

[5:38] Yeah, the most important cause.

[5:40] Matt, I wanna thank you for putting

[5:42] into focus and into perspective.

[5:44] The argument in my house right now

[5:46] is that my kids really wanna see If,

[5:48] and I do not wanna see it.

[5:49] And so, but knowing that I would just be putting

[5:51] the movie into my eyes and ears,

[5:53] and not actually ingesting it as food into my stomach,

[5:56] makes it a little bit more understandable

[5:58] that there's a worse scenario that I could be in.

[6:00] There's a worse form of If to literally ingest.

[6:03] Now, would you rather it was a menu

[6:05] based on Lindsay Anderson's If,

[6:06] starring Malcolm McDowell?

[6:10] I love the idea of like, British school food.

[6:12] Yeah, yeah, a lot of like, puddings,

[6:14] a lot of like, yeah, boiled meats.

[6:16] Beans.

[6:17] Yeah, I can only imagine the-

[6:18] How do we turn the ellipsis into foods?

[6:19] Maybe it has, maybe it's a food

[6:21] with like, three little portions.

[6:22] It's like a, it's a progression in some way.

[6:25] Yeah.

[6:26] The fucking imagineers over at IHOP are like,

[6:30] okay, we're gonna need the Matt Singer bump.

[6:32] What kind of fucked up, nasty shit can we put on here?

[6:36] I don't think it has anything to do with me

[6:37] in all sincerity, but I genuinely have been wondering,

[6:40] like, who are the people that work over there?

[6:42] Who are, whose job?

[6:44] Someone's job it is to be like,

[6:45] what kind of messed up shit can we make this time?

[6:48] Sounds like you got your next book.

[6:49] You got your next book right there.

[6:50] Cormac McCarthy.

[6:51] Yeah, the late Cormac McCarthy was like,

[6:55] my ideas that are too twisted for literature,

[6:57] I put them in the IHOP menu.

[6:59] Yeah.

[7:00] Matt Singer's gonna write, movie food nation.

[7:05] Hold on, let me write that down somewhere.

[7:06] Wait a minute, this is good.

[7:10] So yeah, I was gonna, my idea was,

[7:13] you know, I talked to you a little bit

[7:14] about Cisco and Evert, old interview style,

[7:17] like normal style, and then the second half,

[7:20] we're gonna do kind of a game, but not really.

[7:22] You'll see when we get to it.

[7:24] Don't oversell it.

[7:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[7:27] I like to undersell and, not over deliver,

[7:31] but deliver about where you might have expected originally,

[7:34] you know, so it still seems like a game.

[7:35] But after the underselling, it seems like over delivering,

[7:37] because our standards have been set so low.

[7:42] My secret.

[7:43] Okay, so I think a lot of fans have like,

[7:47] well, a lot of movie people have a particular fondness

[7:50] for Roger Ebert specifically,

[7:52] because I think he wrote with like a lot of personality

[7:57] and personal liveliness,

[7:58] and his writing was sort of better preserved,

[8:01] and of course he outlived Gene, so he had more.

[8:04] So first off, make the case for Gene.

[8:07] Make the case for Gene,

[8:09] because I feel like, no, I feel like, you know,

[8:11] Roger is more remembered.

[8:14] I don't think that's an outrageous statement at all.

[8:18] I think you're absolutely right about that.

[8:20] And it's something I kind of thought about

[8:23] when I was doing the book.

[8:25] I mean, I think this is one thing

[8:27] that I really appreciated about Gene,

[8:31] that I, if I knew it as a kid, it certainly,

[8:36] kind of doing the research and revisiting all the episodes,

[8:40] watching all this stuff,

[8:41] it definitely kind of made me appreciate it anew,

[8:43] which is that he was absolutely,

[8:47] in any other profession,

[8:48] he would have been described as honest to a fault.

[8:51] In this profession, perhaps it would be honest to a plus,

[8:54] to a benefit, and he was absolutely fearless

[8:58] about saying anything he believed in any scenario,

[9:02] in any context, and to anyone.

[9:05] He wouldn't just say honestly,

[9:08] sometimes very mean things on Siskel and Ebert,

[9:11] and then he would go on The Tonight Show

[9:13] and schmooze with the guests.

[9:15] He would say these things on Siskel and Ebert

[9:17] where it was just him and Roger and the crew,

[9:19] and then he would go on The Tonight Show

[9:20] and then say it to the faces

[9:22] of the people he was talking about.

[9:23] He would just be absolutely transparent

[9:26] about the fact that he didn't like something.

[9:28] Or, flip side, maybe he liked it.

[9:30] But there's the very famous viral clip

[9:33] of Siskel and Ebert on The Tonight Show with Chevy Chase,

[9:36] where Chevy Chase is there to promote Three Amigos,

[9:39] and Carson asks both of them,

[9:43] like, you know, I don't wanna do a Johnny Carson impression.

[9:47] Do an impression, yeah, do it.

[9:48] Do it, do it.

[9:50] Yeah, is there a, I don't,

[9:52] I can't, I suddenly have forgotten the ability

[9:54] to do Johnny Carson.

[9:54] No, you did it, you did it great.

[9:55] You did it great.

[9:56] Yeah, it was pretty good, pretty good.

[9:57] Well, it's me, Johnny Carson.

[9:58] It's me, yeah.

[10:00] I mean, Carson, that's right.

[10:02] So he asks, what's the worst Christmas movie?

[10:05] And I think it's Roger who goes first and is like,

[10:09] I can't in any good conscience recommend Three Amigos.

[10:13] And Chevy Chase, it's the Tide Show,

[10:14] the old school Tonight Show,

[10:15] where the guests just hang out on the couch all night.

[10:18] So Chevy is sitting right there next to him.

[10:20] And he kind of smiles and everyone,

[10:23] the audience goes, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

[10:26] And it keeps going.

[10:27] The whole segment becomes this sort of dance.

[10:30] There's an audience of bears that night.

[10:33] Every Friday, Johnny Carson's audience would be bears.

[10:36] It was a thing they did.

[10:36] They called it Barely an Audience Fridays.

[10:39] Yes, yes, I should have mentioned that, you're right.

[10:41] That was an important context that I left out.

[10:45] But it becomes this kind of dance between them

[10:48] where Chevy's not trying to get too upset.

[10:50] He's kind of playing along with them,

[10:52] but they're being honest that they think his movie sucks.

[10:55] And that was not an isolated incident.

[10:57] They would both do it, but really Gene,

[10:59] I think of as the guy who was,

[11:02] Roger liked having friends with filmmakers.

[11:05] Yeah, he would be honest,

[11:06] but he would go to film festivals, he would schmooze.

[11:08] Gene would always say, and I really believe it,

[11:10] he had no interest in socializing with filmmakers,

[11:13] hanging out in Hollywood.

[11:14] He didn't have a lot of filmmaker friends,

[11:16] as far as I know and as people told me

[11:19] when I did my research and stuff.

[11:21] He really didn't care.

[11:23] So he didn't really spare their feelings.

[11:26] And again, maybe in another world,

[11:29] that's not such a great thing.

[11:30] But as a critic, I really respect that about him

[11:32] because he was never tempering his feelings

[11:35] to make a publicist happy, make a filmmaker happy,

[11:38] make anybody happy.

[11:40] He was just gonna say what he honestly thought.

[11:43] And I think there's a value in that,

[11:44] at least as a film critic.

[11:47] Yeah, well, that actually plays into something else

[11:51] I had in my notes about how they can get

[11:52] kind of hilariously mean at times,

[11:56] like Roger's famous, I hated, hated, hated this movie,

[11:58] I hated it, hated every, you know, like of North.

[12:02] And I was wondering about sort of that

[12:05] pull no punches criticism.

[12:08] Like, I feel like you see it amongst assholes

[12:11] on the internet.

[12:12] I mean, perhaps sometimes us even.

[12:14] Yeah, we're assholes on the internet, yeah.

[12:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[12:19] But I feel like it's less common amongst major-

[12:20] Normally you don't see assholes on the internet.

[12:22] Jesus Christ.

[12:25] No, I just like, I feel like it's less common.

[12:27] I mean, like, there's fewer big critics these days.

[12:31] So maybe that's just part of it.

[12:33] But like, I feel like they had enough clout

[12:36] that they didn't have to worry about access as much maybe.

[12:40] And that's, I don't know,

[12:41] do you think there's anything in that or am I just-

[12:43] Well, I mean, you're not wrong.

[12:45] I mean, they did get to a certain point

[12:46] where they were, you know,

[12:49] quite powerful.

[12:50] I mean, they, you know, there was a,

[12:52] in the early days of Entertainment Weekly,

[12:54] they did a, I think they called it the power list

[12:56] or the Hollywood list, something like that,

[12:58] where they ranked the most powerful people in Hollywood.

[13:00] And they put Cisco and Ebert at number 10,

[13:03] which put them below the head of Disney,

[13:06] the company they were syndicated by at the time,

[13:08] Michael Eisner.

[13:09] But it put them above Jeffrey Katzenberg,

[13:12] who was sort of the executive overseeing

[13:14] the company that they were in.

[13:16] And it does speak to the degree to which

[13:19] they were seen as these king makers at the time.

[13:23] And, you know, there are examples of studios

[13:25] getting angry at them for mean reviews

[13:27] and for doing exactly what we're talking about.

[13:29] There's a famous story of them being on,

[13:31] I think it was Regis and Kathy Lee.

[13:33] And they were there promoting an Oscar special or something.

[13:37] And of course, because they're film critics

[13:39] and they're on a talk show,

[13:39] they're not going to talk about it.

[13:40] They're not going to talk about it.

[13:44] And of course, because they're film critics

[13:46] and they're on a talk show,

[13:46] the hosts are asking them, like,

[13:48] is this movie good?

[13:49] Is that movie good?

[13:50] And they started going off on,

[13:52] I want to say it was nuns on the run.

[13:55] Just mercilessly making fun of the movie.

[13:58] And, you know, like they're trying to be entertaining,

[14:00] which they often really were very good

[14:02] entertaining talk show guests.

[14:04] And the studio that was involved with that,

[14:07] and I want to say it's Fox, could be wrong.

[14:10] It's been a little while since I did this research.

[14:13] Can you check your poster of nuns on the run

[14:15] that I see right behind you in the room?

[14:18] Yes.

[14:20] The studio got furious that they did this

[14:22] and they banned them.

[14:24] You're banned.

[14:25] You're banned from all screenings for the forever

[14:27] because you're, you know,

[14:29] they claimed that they objected,

[14:31] not to their reviews,

[14:32] they were entitled to their opinions,

[14:34] but that they were like making fun of it

[14:36] on an appearance that had nothing to,

[14:38] you know, they were on a talk show

[14:39] and they were just making jokes,

[14:40] cracking easy jokes or something like that.

[14:44] And, you know, they had this whole big thing

[14:46] and they were completely unfazed.

[14:47] They said, that's fine.

[14:48] We'll go pay and see the movies when we can see them.

[14:50] We'll rewrite reviews if we can in time,

[14:53] if we can, and if we won't, we won't cover your movies

[14:56] and we won't review them on our show.

[14:58] And supposedly they privately

[15:02] between the two of them discussed this

[15:04] and like made a bet about when the ban would be reversed.

[15:08] And Gene thought it would last one movie.

[15:11] And Roger said, we'll be invited back

[15:13] before the same studio has another movie.

[15:16] And he was right.

[15:16] They didn't, the ban did not last a movie.

[15:20] The very next movie that the Fox or whoever it was had,

[15:24] they were invited back to the screening.

[15:27] And-

[15:28] I wonder what movie the studio was like,

[15:31] we need these guys to see this.

[15:32] They're gonna love it.

[15:33] Right.

[15:34] North.

[15:35] Oh no.

[15:36] Exactly.

[15:37] But I mean, again, like that just shows, yes.

[15:39] They definitely had the juice.

[15:42] And this is like, we're talking about the early 90s,

[15:44] I think, and that's, you know, in that period,

[15:46] they definitely had that aura about them,

[15:50] whether it was always true or not

[15:52] that they could make or break a movie.

[15:54] There was definitely a period

[15:55] where they were seen in that light.

[15:59] So this is a bad movie podcast, primarily.

[16:04] I'm gonna focus sort of-

[16:06] Let's not limit ourselves, but okay, sure.

[16:08] I mean, you think of us as, you know,

[16:10] sort of a culture and what, baking podcast, maybe?

[16:13] Yeah, baking and general lifestyle.

[16:15] Educational, yeah.

[16:16] I've been meaning to get onto Scented Candles

[16:18] at some point in this podcast,

[16:20] and I just never find the time, usually.

[16:21] You guys razzed me for being into astrology,

[16:25] but Elliot's Scented Candles fucking multi,

[16:29] what, multi-level marketing scheme

[16:31] he's been trying to pull off?

[16:32] Yeah, exactly.

[16:33] That's an interesting way to describe people helping people

[16:36] to find the best candles and the best scents.

[16:40] Well, anyway, since bad movies are our purview,

[16:43] I was gonna focus maybe on Siskel and Ebert,

[16:47] and if not bad movies, movies they disliked.

[16:52] And one thing I wanted to say is,

[16:54] they seem to have particular issues with certain movies,

[16:58] like stuff that you might categorize as a blind spot,

[17:02] and I'm thinking most specifically

[17:03] about their version to a lot of horror,

[17:08] slasher movies in particular, during the 80s.

[17:11] And yet, there'd be moments like the one

[17:14] where Roger Ebert gave Last House on the Left four stars.

[17:18] And number one, I was curious,

[17:23] as you watch so many of their reviews,

[17:25] whether there are other things where you're like,

[17:26] oh, this is a blind spot of this person or that person.

[17:29] And also, what do you make of the moments

[17:31] where they sort of cut against the tide?

[17:34] Cut against their own tide?

[17:36] Or cut against-

[17:37] Their own tide, yeah.

[17:38] Give something like Last House a rave.

[17:42] Right.

[17:43] Those moments are fun because, I mean,

[17:45] to give you an idea of when I was doing the research,

[17:48] I tried to watch every single episode of the show,

[17:50] as many as I possibly could.

[17:52] And at the time, not every single episode

[17:57] was available online, but the vast, vast majority was.

[18:01] So that was part of the fun

[18:03] of watching every episode in order

[18:05] and kind of trying to game it,

[18:07] would be a movie would come up.

[18:08] And sometimes I would know what the review was,

[18:11] if it was a famous movie.

[18:13] I knew they gave Speed 2 Cruise Control two thumbs up,

[18:15] to speak of a bad movie.

[18:19] I knew that Roger gave diehard thumbs down,

[18:22] but gave Speed 2 Cruise Control thumbs up.

[18:25] I knew stuff like that.

[18:26] But then there would be times-

[18:26] On the same day.

[18:28] Yes, which is weird.

[18:28] So diehard is already a famous movie by then.

[18:31] He just kept bringing it up.

[18:32] He just couldn't, he hated it, he kept piling on.

[18:36] So there were, but there were times where I wouldn't know.

[18:39] And it was sort of fun to be like, well, what are they?

[18:41] Like, is this going to be one of those movies

[18:43] that surprises me?

[18:44] And many times there were surprises like that.

[18:48] In terms of like horror specifically, yes,

[18:51] they definitely gave a lot of negative reviews

[18:53] to horror movies, mostly in like the period,

[18:57] the early days of the show.

[18:58] Like they really, they both liked Halloween,

[19:02] but then it seems like so many bad Halloween knockoffs

[19:06] came out in the years after that,

[19:08] that they really grew very sick of just,

[19:11] maybe slasher movies in general,

[19:13] but just like bad, you know, schlocky, exploitation movies.

[19:16] And there's so many that they actually did,

[19:19] whether you agree with them or not,

[19:21] and you know, I'm not judging anyone.

[19:24] If you love late 70s, early 80s, you know,

[19:27] like exploitation movies and slasher movies, wonderful.

[19:31] But there's a really interesting episode of the show

[19:34] where they did like a whole episode about this phenomenon.

[19:37] And I think if you just like type, you know,

[19:39] Google Siskel Ebert slasher movies or something like that,

[19:43] it'll probably come up.

[19:44] The title is something like Extreme Violence Against Women

[19:47] is like the name of the episode.

[19:50] And it's an interesting, you know,

[19:52] it's a very interesting like half hour,

[19:55] it's almost like a prototypical video essay in a way.

[20:00] You know pre-youtube because they're showing clips from the movies and making arguments about them

[20:05] And again, you might agree or disagree, but it's a very interesting like half hour to watch. It's a work of film criticism on

[20:14] Television, you know to the people who dismiss always dismissed Siskel and Ebert as oh, it's just these two guys. They give thumbs

[20:19] They've ruined film criticism

[20:21] They've turned it into this binary thing like it's sort of puts the lie to that whether you agree with them or not

[20:28] That's not that you bring up something that I that I hadn't really thought about

[20:33] Enough I think which is that they were also reviewing at a time when if it was gonna be in the theaters

[20:38] Basically, they were seeing it right and now we live in a time where there's so many different outlets for movies that

[20:44] You as a critic you are not going to see every thing that's potential that's coming out

[20:49] So one day they might be watching a big classy Hollywood movie and the next they're gonna be watching

[20:54] Kind of cheap schlock and so they were probably also

[20:58] It must if you really don't like that stuff

[21:00] You're being reminded constantly of what else you could be watching at the same time, you know

[21:04] Yeah, you're watching stuff that now probably wouldn't reach the level of

[21:09] Being reviewed by a by a major critic in the same way

[21:12] I'm guessing you're you're absolutely right in that time period being like the daily critic at a big newspaper

[21:17] Like the Chicago Sun-Times the Chicago Tribune

[21:21] You know really was to try to see as many movies that are opening in that town every week as possible and so that you

[21:28] Know they probably were not seeing everything a lot of weeks

[21:30] but they were seeing a lot of stuff and and and it's it's pretty interesting because like

[21:35] If you watch those really early episodes, you'll see like they're not just going to like press screenings

[21:40] Like they'll they'll say I went to the so-and-so theater this week and I saw this

[21:45] Weird horror movie that you know

[21:48] so-and-so attacks and here and and it's like it's it's much more like I'm just going to the movies to see what's playing and

[21:55] Here's what I saw and it does have that

[21:59] Survey quality to it. Whereas you're right now

[22:02] a

[22:03] There's so many movies coming out all the time every single week

[22:06] It literally would be impossible for any person to see them all and even at the you know

[22:10] B there's almost no film critics at newspapers or magazines doing that sort of approach to the job anymore and

[22:18] See the man, you know

[22:19] the newspapers that do care enough to do this kind of stuff like the New York Times a they don't cover everything and B they

[22:25] Have multiple full-time critics plus they farm out stuff to freelancers. So yeah

[22:32] Nobody is seeing as much as

[22:34] Critics like Siskel and Ebert did in that day and age

[22:38] So yes part of the part of it. It might just be right. They didn't have a choice

[22:42] They had to go see these horror movies and if you're seeing two of them every week for three straight years

[22:47] Even if you like that kind of thing, it might get a little tiresome

[22:51] Well, Dan was born too late. I think Dan

[22:57] Haunting those Times Square theaters or whatever the Times Square equivalent of in Eureka, Illinois

[23:02] Make it my job to just be in a movie theater all the time. Sure. I'll eat it up

[23:06] You can have that job right now Dan if you work in a movie

[23:11] Wait, hold on no, but I

[23:14] That's the part of it. Actually the answer that I zeroed in on like a similar thing where?

[23:20] Yeah, that the top if there were that many post Halloween

[23:26] Slasher knockoffs and you're you know also predisposed maybe to think that like though they're too violent or whatever

[23:32] But like just being tired of it, you know being tired of it, and I was wondering

[23:38] Sorry to diverge from Cisco Lieber into you Matt

[23:41] But I guess based on what you said, maybe you don't have to see as much

[23:48] To make this be true. But other than superhero movies, which is sort of the easy mode answer

[23:53] Is there something that you're just like maybe now in a vacuum you would like it more but you're so sick of that type of thing

[24:00] that

[24:01] You wonder whether you're like verging is like I just can't I can't anymore with this

[24:06] You might like a blue pancake with fruity pebbles on it if it was

[24:11] Yeah, that's probably the right answer that's what I'm sick of yes poison poisoning myself slowly year by year

[24:18] Have you had to have you had to eat any promotional pop-tarts for unfrosted yet?

[24:24] You joke but there were like

[24:28] A

[24:30] Trap pops if you've seen the film there were like branded with Jerry Seinfeld's face

[24:36] And I went to the grocery store looking for them. I was gonna eat

[24:41] unfrosted pop-tarts

[24:43] Now keep looking I haven't found him yet. But yeah, but in terms of movies you were gonna say what's there something that you're like

[24:51] for content

[24:54] I'm honestly kind of like

[24:57] Dan in the sense that I I kind of I never got to have that Siskel and Ebert experience and I kind of

[25:04] Think I would I didn't I might enjoy it

[25:06] Maybe not after I mean they they did that, you know in the case of Jean for 25 30 years in the case of Roger 40 years

[25:14] And so maybe by the end of it it would have I could see how it could become exhausting

[25:20] But I don't know it

[25:22] You know like I've done I started doing this thing recently where you know

[25:26] I'm going to press screenings and most of the press screenings in New York

[25:30] You know

[25:31] The ones that I can go to because I have kids and and I have to work during the day are like evenings

[25:35] But they're early evening

[25:36] and so I've started to go to movies like make it a double feature and go afterwards to see things and

[25:43] I've been I've been doing it more and more

[25:45] Now that my kids are a little older and I you know

[25:48] Like I'd feel like I don't have to rush home and I'm and I'm also like sleeping more

[25:51] So I don't feel like I'm on the verge of complete collapse all the time and I'm really like loving

[25:57] Yeah, I'm enjoying going to movies like last week. I saw

[26:01] I

[26:03] Saw the TV glow and then afterwards I went and saw challengers and I was like, oh wow

[26:08] That's a fun double feature. I was like Vin Diesel going the movies, you know

[26:13] Really I was digging it so I don't know I guess I you know, like I am in

[26:19] I'm fortunate that I do get to see a lot of stuff and write about a lot of stuff

[26:23] But I wouldn't mind seeing more things and rendering getting to cover more things

[26:28] It's sort of the double-edged sword of it's it's never enough. You know, like I I wouldn't mind seeing some more maybe not

[26:34] 30

[26:36] Slasher movies in a month, but I could stand a few more in my life to be honest with you

[26:41] You know when I was a kid, my parents basically never took us to the movies like to the theater like

[26:48] Like that was what I wanted to do with my birthday because like I was yeah finally a chance to see movie the theater

[26:57] And sometimes I wonder whether it's like

[26:59] That Harpo mark story where he like loved licorice black jelly beans when he was a kid

[27:05] But there's only one ever in a bag and he like and then we was adults like I'm just gonna buy a fuck

[27:11] black-jelly beans to eat them till I'm sick, you know and

[27:14] Yeah. Anyway, this is not sir. Are you sick yet?

[27:21] Right now yeah, I might I might be approaching sick, but uh, let's move on to another question and that is just

[27:28] One thing that kind of hit me in the book is how shows like say the Flophouse or any other?

[27:35] cultural discussion show would not exist without Siskel and Ebert because they kind of

[27:42] uh

[27:43] Like the ones who made the format big the idea that you could just talk about movies people would find entertaining

[27:50] Uh, I don't know. Like what what do you think the downriver influence is? Did you think a lot about this?

[27:55] I know that you sort of get into it at parts of the book. I

[27:59] Absolutely, I mean I do think that the whole sort of movie discussion industrial complex is is kind of

[28:08] a stewardess fist-pumping

[28:11] Yeah, I mean the big the thing that is interesting that's different though. Is that

[28:18] the

[28:19] All the world of movie podcasts, which I love I used to host

[28:24] Two different movie podcasts and I listen to a lot of podcasts including yours, you know

[28:29] There's a bunch that I listen to every single week. There's others. I kind of do you listen to ours first, right?

[28:33] Like are you listen to let's always make always?

[28:37] And then you listen the episode again

[28:38] I only listen I listen to the one that you guys had me on every week over and

[28:44] Then I get to the new ones because it's all about me

[28:46] But then I then I dabble into the into the other ones

[28:50] No, but this is the dip but I really did think about this though is like

[28:54] The difference though is that and you guys are a perfect example like you guys are friends you enjoy

[29:00] Talking to each other and conversing and there's a certain to a certain extent

[29:04] You guys would be doing this whether there was a podcast involved or not

[29:08] You may be not at this length, maybe not this regularly, but you would be talking about movies

[29:13] You would be making jokes. You would be watching things like yeah, and and that's true of the

[29:19] Frankly every single podcast I know of you know, I can't think I don't know of an example of podcast

[29:24] That's been going on for any length of time. That's two people who hate each other

[29:29] Intense rivals who really like don't socialize

[29:33] Can't stand each other and have a have a professional relationship only that's like that. That's the part that's different

[29:41] It's like the discussion part is what kind of filtered down into podcasts

[29:46] But the that aspect is not as present and that's that's something I find interesting

[29:51] Is that like of all the podcasts that are out there? There isn't one like that

[29:55] Maybe there maybe that's a niche that someone were waiting for someone to fill. I don't

[30:00] No, and it's not like I sit listening to The Flop House or any other podcast going,

[30:04] boy, I wish these people hated each other. But it is something, it's an element of that

[30:10] original flop. Give us five more years, Matt, we'll get there.

[30:13] Yeah, you'll get there. Slowly, slowly.

[30:14] I feel conflict is a big part, like I feel like that's part of the appeal of the Doughboys,

[30:19] is there's like a little bit of conflict there. Yeah, they do sometimes have,

[30:23] there's a little tension there, yeah. But it's not like a, but yeah, and that's a good example,

[30:30] I suppose. But it's like, I don't see the Siskel and Ebert podcasts in a real strict way. You could

[30:36] say, well, this podcast has two people, they're very intelligent critics, I'm interested in their

[30:41] thoughts, they have different perspectives. There's lots of examples of that. But in terms

[30:44] of like, and also, these people kind of can't stand each other, or at least that's where it

[30:51] started. Maybe now they go, they can kind of get along, they respect each other now,

[30:55] they have reached this sort of understanding or mutual respect. But it all started from,

[31:00] this guy pisses me off, and I'm going to kind of tell him to his face. Like that energy,

[31:05] I don't know of a podcast, look, if there's a podcast out there like that, I would be interested

[31:10] to hear it, please tell me about it, you know? Well, the fact that they were brought together

[31:14] right from the point of view of like, these guys will argue with each other, like these are not,

[31:18] yeah, they will. And that, yeah, that the relationship kind of continued to be that

[31:23] way of like, being professional colleagues, rather than, you know, they wouldn't be like

[31:28] best man at each other's weddings or anything like that. Right. And they literally were not,

[31:33] although Gene's daughters, I think, were the flower girls at Roger's wedding. Gene was not

[31:39] the best man at Roger's wedding. But yes, you're absolutely right. And it's a good point to note

[31:45] that like, even though it was, we think of it as Siskel and Ebert, that's the name I certainly

[31:50] think of, even though it wasn't always called that. Like, it wasn't like Siskel and Ebert got

[31:53] together and said, we're going to make a show. Yeah. They were in the beginning, they were hired

[31:58] guns, you know, they were brought in by other people to host the show. And to some extent,

[32:05] maybe it was the thought that they would argue. But I think even more than that, it was just,

[32:08] it was a Chicago based show, and they were the big critics in town. And they were the ones who

[32:14] really kind of approached it as like, I don't really like this guy. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna

[32:19] make that a part of this, you know, because it was it. I mean, I genuinely believe if Roger Ebert

[32:26] had created the show, Gene Siskel would not have been his co-host, his choice, and vice versa.

[32:30] They would have found somebody else to do it with. They would not have wanted to do it with

[32:34] the other one. It was only because they were sort of put together and they kind of didn't

[32:38] have a choice. But they both sensed this is a good opportunity that they went along with it.

[32:43] Instead, it would have been Siskel and Shallot.

[32:46] Or, you know, you know, whoever else was going Whipple.

[32:52] Well, Shallot and Whipple is a real.

[32:57] And they each other.

[32:59] If that's not a sketch, a sketch comedy sketch for an audience of one person who's named Singer.

[33:06] I don't know what is because that sounds great.

[33:13] Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening

[33:22] to my podcast, the JV Club with Janet Varney is part of the curriculum for the school year.

[33:28] Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson,

[33:33] John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but

[33:40] to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every

[33:46] Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in

[33:53] the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I.

[34:03] Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there?

[34:06] Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky.

[34:08] Let me give it a try.

[34:09] Okay.

[34:10] If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

[34:17] No, it will. Let me try.

[34:19] If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O.

[34:25] We are so close.

[34:27] Stop podcasting yourself.

[34:29] A podcast from MaximumFun.org.

[34:32] If you need a laugh and you're on the go.

[34:35] Hey, the Flophouse is brought to you by the Spring Cleaning Champions, Manscaped.

[34:41] This season, make sure to groom your carpets and the drapes with the leaders in

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[35:52] Nothing like a little spring cleaning in your pants.

[36:00] And also, now the natural transition from downstairs grooming to our personal plugs.

[36:09] And that is to say that, hey, you can still, for a very short period of time, if you are

[36:15] listening to this when it first came out, I believe this episode will drop on May 18th.

[36:22] So you still have a slim window of time.

[36:24] This is the last weekend.

[36:26] You can watch our video-on-demand Flophouse Syncs Speed 2 show.

[36:32] That is a beautifully shot and edited version of a live show we did in Los Angeles with

[36:38] a little extra behind-the-scenes stuff as well.

[36:41] You can watch it in your home at your leisure until midnight on May 19th.

[36:48] And if you're interested in that, go to stagepilot.com slash speed.

[36:53] We also have a couple of shows in Oxford, England at the end of May.

[36:58] That's right, international Flophouse.

[37:02] I mean, I know we've been to Canada before.

[37:03] Fine, fine, fine.

[37:05] But we are going across the pond, as they say, which is a misnomer.

[37:09] I'm not sure that you all know this, but it's much larger than a pond.

[37:13] Yeah, it's true.

[37:14] On May the 24th at Oxford Town Hall, we're going to be doing two shows, one at 7 p.m.

[37:20] It's about the Avengers, the one with Ralph Fiennes and Uma Thurman, not the one with

[37:25] all your favorite Marvel heroes.

[37:27] And at 9, we'll be talking Spice World.

[37:31] We're going to stop right there.

[37:33] Thank you very much.

[37:35] And discuss Spice World.

[37:38] If you're interested in tickets for those or any of the shows, the one I previously

[37:43] mentioned or the one I'm about to, you can go to flophousepodcast.com slash events and

[37:48] look into that.

[37:49] Yes, there's another show to plug.

[37:51] It is live in Boston.

[37:52] It is on July 26th.

[37:54] So you got a lot of time.

[37:56] But don't delay.

[37:58] Why not do it while you're thinking about it?

[38:00] We'll be at WBUR City Space, movie TBD.

[38:06] But we had a great time at City Space before in Boston.

[38:09] A great show.

[38:10] Stuart almost killed me with a presentation about cars.

[38:14] Can he reach those heights again?

[38:16] Perhaps we'll see.

[38:18] And if you're interested in any of these shows again, just go to flophousepodcast.com slash

[38:24] events.

[38:25] But now back to the show.

[38:31] We're back.

[38:32] Uh, since we're a bad movie show, I wanted to spend about bad movies, right?

[38:38] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[38:40] You're just telling me how you need to get out of here.

[38:43] I wanted to spend the second half of the show on their dog of the week segment.

[38:49] Cisco and Ebert were not above some goofy stagecraft, especially early on in the series.

[38:56] And they would have an actual dog spot, the Wonder Dog.

[38:59] And they would highlight a movie they thought was terrible.

[39:04] So they were like, it's a new show.

[39:06] Maybe it stays about movies.

[39:07] Maybe it becomes a show about dogs.

[39:09] We don't know.

[39:10] Who knows?

[39:13] Yeah, go on.

[39:14] Sorry.

[39:14] No, I mean, this is one of the fun things that, you know, like people who've only seen

[39:20] the later episodes might not realize.

[39:22] And I knew about the dog of the week.

[39:26] But until you really watch it, you don't.

[39:30] First of all, there was multiple dogs.

[39:33] There were, to my knowledge, there were three different dogs.

[39:36] They replaced dogs whenever they felt like it.

[39:39] There was Spot the Wonder Dog.

[39:40] There was Zeke the Wonder Dog.

[39:42] And there's one other one.

[39:43] And then when they went into that was at PBS, the original incarnation of the show.

[39:47] Then when they went to PBS, they were worried if they brought the dog with them, they'd get

[39:50] sued.

[39:50] So then it became the stinker of the week.

[39:53] And they had a skunk on the set with them.

[39:56] Literally, aroma, the educated skunk.

[40:00] was sitting next to them in the balcony and I could tell you stories about the skunk if you want,

[40:05] then eventually they got sick of the skunk because it's a they're sitting next to a skunk for god's

[40:13] sakes and they told their executive producer we're not we don't like the skunk the skunks

[40:18] we're done we're we're better than this aren't we essentially yeah and they convinced the producer

[40:24] let's get rid of the skunk and then the producer came to them and said boys I got a great idea

[40:31] and uh they were like well what do you want us to do now he's like all right you didn't

[40:34] like the skunk of the week but what about the turkey of the week and they said oh god you want

[40:41] us to be in the balcony with a turkey no no no no no a turkey vulture oh god yeah something more

[40:50] dangerous please exactly so anyway uh that was and that was the end of all the of the weeks

[40:56] but yes the thing that's amazing about them um is that this on the flip side of well if you watch

[41:05] these old episodes you'll see they're doing actually pretty high level criticism uh if you

[41:09] watch the episodes where they do dog of the week it's like it's like watching the origins of mystery

[41:14] science theater 3000 they're not doing criticism they're just these movies are there to be teed up

[41:18] to make jokes and they're watching them on a screen and they're sitting in a theater it actually

[41:23] feels a little like wow like mystery science 3000 i've never asked i would love to know if like um

[41:30] you know the uh the people involved in the origins of msc3k if that was in the back of their minds at

[41:37] all but i don't think we know anybody who knows jules we don't know anybody no way to find x yeah

[41:42] we have no access to those people they don't know familiar with them don't know the show you're

[41:45] talking about yeah but it's something i have i have wondered about and it is it is fun to go back

[41:50] and watch i should ask him about that he always would say that he was inspired by an image in an

[41:56] elton john album uh cover there's an image of a silhouette of people sitting in front of a screen

[42:02] for the song i've seen that movie too or whatever it's called i don't know and he always said he

[42:06] was inspired by that but i wonder i'll have to ask him sometime i mean i'm not going like obviously

[42:11] they stole sysco nebert it's just no no that's how i'm going to present it to him yeah

[42:16] yes i've accused him of plagiarism i mean maybe i because these are literally the two shows that so

[42:23] like infected my brain when i was 12 years old with sysco nebert mystery science here they were

[42:28] like the things i was obsessed with that now i can't i see one and i see the other but i'm telling

[42:33] you it's they're not sitting there going yes this is a a treatise on the you know the lost uh the

[42:40] lost innocence of man they're going look at this stupid movie look at how silly they look they're

[42:45] they're cracking jokes all the time and they're cutting to the to you know them in the theater

[42:49] looking at the movie on the screen you go well that's kind of interesting it's sort of uh you

[42:53] know the prehistory of that sort of thing just something kind of interesting the this this bit

[43:00] is halfway to a game halfway just chatting about some movies uh it's gonna i'm gonna talk about a

[43:08] few dog of the week movies here uh i'm gonna ignore the ones that they're obviously wrong

[43:14] about like the brood or ms-45 uh but the brood is fine it's it's not it's no dog of the week

[43:22] it's not a dog of the week compared to the level of most dogs of the week it's not a dog of the

[43:26] week that's fair i i like the brood a lot anyway uh so i've got some titles for each one i'm gonna

[43:32] ask two questions one can you tell me anything about this movie this probably will mostly be for

[43:38] matt who will see his whether he retained these dog of the week segments right and two do you think

[43:45] the public agreed with sysco niebert and for the purposes of this uh if the imdb rating average

[43:51] from users is below five they agree it's a dog of the week but if it's above five it's not quite dog

[43:58] level so uh first one i got here is the island of the fishmen from 1979 so this is the kind of

[44:05] movie that nowadays i feel like a critic would not bother to cover yeah this is the difference

[44:10] i'm talking about yeah yeah anyone know anything about island of the fishmen it's a great name

[44:16] it is pretty it's an evocative title if nothing else i'm looking yeah so i'm looking in my in my

[44:22] notes from this period cheating well i'm curious if i if there was anything notable from any of

[44:29] these reviews yeah um and this one i don't even have in my notes so perhaps i didn't even find

[44:34] this episode when i was looking uh and watching them because i did for the paperback the updated

[44:40] edition yeah i did keep track of you know every episode i watched i took very copious notes of

[44:46] each movie the dogs of the week the votes on each movie and any notable stuff that happened

[44:52] i would write down but i this one isn't even in my notes that's how uh obscure this one is

[44:58] before i tell you just a little bit about it would you say it's a dog or not a dog in the eyes of the

[45:02] imdb voting public i'm gonna i would guess that it is a dog i don't know i'm gonna say if the imdb

[45:11] voting public is voting on this movie they are the kind of person who would like a movie called

[45:15] island of the fishmen so i'm gonna say not a good point good point um you know but uh between you

[45:21] guys stewart if you want to weigh in you can but uh you seem uh i was checking the imdb page okay

[45:28] uh this one cheater i'm the only one fair not a dog just barely at 5.3 it's about

[45:35] a prison ship that sinks in the caribbean and prisoners uh and a doctor washeshore where they

[45:41] discover a strange couple who invite them to stay at their house and uh the uh apparently

[45:47] the doctor does a little investigation finds out what the pair is up to and why prisoners

[45:52] keep disappearing mysteriously i'm guessing it has something to do with fishmen yeah that's i mean

[45:58] put money on fishmen unless that's a classic fishman scenario the doctors could be named

[46:02] dr fishman yeah toss in a little imdb trivia future director and then head of publicity

[46:10] and marketing for new world pictures jim wynorski came up with a title change and did a little

[46:15] additional filming so they could release this as screamers in the u.s uh let's keep with the

[46:22] island theme there's frankenstein island from 1981 does he recall anything about this film

[46:30] frankenstein island i don't know but now that you mentioned the other movie was screamers i do have

[46:35] that in my notes and i can tell you screamers was reviewed as the dog of the week on the episode

[46:40] where sysco and ebert reviewed raiders of the lost ark oh wow they like higher size screamers

[46:47] hard to believe amazing did they like raiders the lost ark they did they did they gave it two

[46:52] two well in those days it was not thumbs the thumbs had not been invented yet but

[46:57] they gave it they gave it two yes votes in the early days of the show that was catchy

[47:02] everything got a yes or a no the uh not nearly as catchy frankenstein island sounds like one of

[47:10] the hotel transylvania sequels yeah for sure it does the one they wear they go on vacation yeah

[47:15] yeah i don't know i don't know anything about it but i can tell you i'm looking at my notes now

[47:20] and it was it this was an ebert dog of the week sometimes they would both have a different dog

[47:25] of the week on an episode they were both seeing so much crap they would often each have their own

[47:32] double dog day yeah up or down vote dog or no but no dog

[47:37] matt i vote dog i'm gonna be voting i'm gonna probably be straight dog most of the dog yeah

[47:42] i'm straight dog let's make it three dog uh this is a dog this has uh 2.0 the lowest score of the

[47:48] bunch despite despite listen to this when a hot air balloon already

[47:55] was it was it was it ever who said there's no good movies with hot air balloons oh yeah

[48:01] that was one of ebert's like rent like his rules he has that like little movie glossary that he was

[48:06] i mean you know like which is crazy since the wizard of oz is maybe the greatest movie of all

[48:10] time and then you got a very great muppet caper uh that's a good one with a hot air balloon yeah

[48:17] uh anyway the citizens of this hot air balloon discovered dr frankenstein's ancestor carrying

[48:22] on the family work carrying on as an ancestor i don't know yeah that seems to be miswritten

[48:26] whoever wrote that yeah along with a race of mutants and population of amazon's trivia

[48:32] john caridin only appears a floating image during the whole film it's it's the same shot of him all

[48:39] the time sometimes repeating dialogue and sometimes with new dialogue um let's let's

[48:47] let's race on to uh this movie dirt from 1979 do you remember anything about dirt

[48:54] i don't remember anything on dirt there's also dirty tricks was a different dog of the

[49:02] dirt related dog of the week uh here we go dirt this was also an ebert dog of the week

[49:10] siskel had his own separate dog i i could tell you i don't want i don't know i don't know if

[49:14] that's also on your list i don't want to spoil it no tell us tell us ruin dance game what was

[49:20] dog of the week that week was named demonoid

[49:26] be followed by rated r

[49:30] i think i'd like that playing at your cousin's house when his parents go to sleep would you call

[49:35] this what now in the eyes of the public dog or not a dog elliot i'm gonna go to you first what's

[49:40] it called dirt i'm gonna say dog also on this one i could be wrong but i'll say dog also well i like

[49:46] the movie mud presumably this is a prequel yeah mud's a pretty wet movie so i guess before they

[49:56] went to the swamps yeah i'll say this is a dog

[50:00] I'm gonna I'm gonna say not a dog

[50:03] Wow

[50:04] Matt your iconoclasm is paid off because this has the highest score of the bunch with a 6.8

[50:11] This is a apparently a documentary Wow

[50:14] the footage is from between

[50:17] 76 and 78 about varied types of off-road competition through the US and Baja, California. There's no

[50:25] Trivia for this, but the soundtrack lists the songs snow climb swamp buggy and Jeep Ridge Runners

[50:34] I have some fun trivia for you. Are you ready? I'm looking at my guess. Yeah

[50:39] This dog of the week appears on an extremely notable episode of okay, not Cisco and Ebert

[50:45] But to sneak previews at the time it is the same episode where they reviewed gates of heaven

[50:50] Which became a really big?

[50:53] Movie as a result of their review

[50:57] I actually spoke to Errol Morris for my book and he credited them with this review

[51:02] And then they kept bringing it up on episode after episode

[51:05] He literally said they gave me a career by talking about my movie gates of heaven

[51:10] So same episode they all sent a little more. They also reviewed escape from New York on this episode, but

[51:18] That did not get two thumbs or two yeses up one of the two men

[51:23] Gave it a no vote. Would you care to guess? I'm now hijacking your game with my own Wow

[51:31] Cisco or Ebert who gave escape from New York the immortal classic a no vote

[51:38] Ebert Ebert famously gave the thing a bad review

[51:42] Yeah, so I'm going to guess that Ebert also didn't like escape from I

[51:48] I'm gonna say Cisco. I don't know. No either. I think he had a bit of a blind spot for Carpenter

[51:53] Even though he liked Halloween the correct answer the host that gave it a no vote is

[51:59] Roger Ebert. Oh

[52:03] Sorry going I think it's funny to me. I feel like as Roger Ebert got older

[52:07] He got softer on that type of movie

[52:11] Near the end of his career. There was a Gamera movie and a lot of his his review is about you know

[52:17] When you're young you like movies that are well-made

[52:19] Like a movie like Air Force One and then you get older and you want to see movies that have like show you things

[52:24] You're not gonna see and you kind of get tired of movies like Air Force One and he and it's like a yeah

[52:29] It's I always found that to be a really memorable

[52:32] Reveal where he's basically saying like my taste has changed somewhat and I prize different things about movies than I maybe once yeah

[52:38] So maybe he came around to ask it from New York someday. I don't know maybe and I that Errol Morris story

[52:44] just maybe think like I feel like

[52:47] people who don't like film criticism like

[52:50] There are people who just like oh, it's you know, it's people like wanting to ruin the fun

[52:54] What like want to like?

[52:57] It was a Marvel shill, right?

[52:59] Yeah, like shooting people or shills or like yeah

[53:02] like there's all this kind of negativity and I feel like what we've lost in having influential film critics is people who will

[53:09] champion

[53:10] Good movies and actually like move the needle on them and like help sort of the art

[53:17] We luckily we have Dan's letterbox for that

[53:24] Bullshit from

[53:26] 1983

[53:27] Dan's letterbox is like four stars cheeky directed by a tiptoe

[53:33] What it's like to have a but yeah

[53:36] It's true. It's truth in art. Um

[53:39] Let's uh, we have two more of these. Let's get through them. So we

[53:44] He's like I just watched this movie. I did not like it. Here's my letter rocks review three and a half stars. I

[53:52] Did I mean I like it but god damn it I respect it anyway

[53:55] The next one the vampires night orgy from 1973

[54:02] It feels like night is unnecessary there a vampire is gonna do everything at night, especially she was the original one. This is the sequel

[54:11] This one's not in my notes either I wonder if it has an alternate title like screamers did

[54:17] well

[54:19] We'll get into

[54:25] I'm just gonna you know in the interest of actually moving us along. I'll say this is a dog with a score of

[54:35] 4.8 from the public close and that's pretty respectable. Yeah, I

[54:40] About that orgy was a

[54:44] Daytime orgy boring the fact that it was a nighttime orgy that made it what really appealed?

[54:49] Well, I feel like it's hard to get a higher score than that when your movie has the word orgy

[54:53] Well, I wanted to say I'm surprised I was looking at a list of these I'm surprised at how many

[54:59] horny sounding movies ended up on dog the week knowing how

[55:04] Horny Roger Ebert was and how cheerfully open he was about that fact

[55:08] So look when he when he went to that when he did his job, he took off his pervert hat and put on his review

[55:13] Yeah, you know, it's right. Yes

[55:16] Well, all I know about this is the IMDb plot says a busload of tourists stops in to visit a small European town

[55:23] Well, they don't know is the town's completely inhabited by vampires sounds

[55:27] pretty

[55:28] standard but from the alternate version section

[55:31] It says this film like many Spanish films from the late 60s to the end of the Franco era

[55:37] Shot its racy scenes twice

[55:40] Once with the actors nude and then again with clothes on the covered versions mostly appeared in Spanish prints

[55:45] But not always the nude scenes would be included in the dubbed versions that were offered for sale elsewhere

[55:51] This film has three scenes where the actresses are nude and these appear in an English dub print retitled orgy of the vampires

[55:58] So they move the orgy I guess to the front

[56:02] size

[56:04] the important and

[56:06] On a similar note will close out this whole shebang this whole weird deal with a movie called

[56:14] the kinky coaches and the pom-pom pussycats

[56:17] It is amazing to me that they that this is a movie that they reviewed at all

[56:25] Okay, so this I have in my know this one I do have my notes, yeah

[56:30] Cisco this was a Cisco dog of the week and I actually wrote down a quote from his review here

[56:36] This is from Jean's dog of the week comments on this film quote

[56:40] Also, there's very little nudity in the movie. That's

[56:44] Disappointing. Yeah, I mean with your title

[56:48] Yes, if you're going to see the kinky coaches and the pom-pom pussycats

[56:51] I mean you look I will say it does have it is also known by the less intriguing title heartbreak high, which is

[56:59] Yeah, wildly generic after the kinky coaches of the pom-pom pussy. I think that's I think that's an Australian

[57:06] Like sitcom like a euphoria style show on Netflix right now

[57:10] Yeah

[57:12] Ebert's dog of the week on this episode was called the much less excitingly titled a hard way to die

[57:20] Rated R

[57:22] Mean, that's a mean. I don't know. That's a

[57:25] Hard way to die is what it's about like prostate cancer though

[57:31] It's a Mike Lee movie

[57:35] On this film, I just want a note

[57:38] It's a you know plot wise it's a football sex comedy

[57:41] but the top three build actors are not who you would

[57:46] Necessarily expect from a movie called the kinky coaches in the pom-pom pussycats Olivier. And those are

[57:52] John Vernon Norman fell and Robert Forster. So there you go

[57:58] Three Wow

[58:01] I can see them playing teachers and coaches in it. I guess I guess part of it is like I'm

[58:07] pussycats

[58:11] I am imagining them as older men. I think as part of the problem is as I mostly knew them, but um

[58:18] Before we go. Oh, no, this was when they were young bucks. Yeah, they were just real real hot around pom-pom pussycats

[58:26] Before we go, you know, obviously we focus a lot of bad movies

[58:29] But I wanted to end on a positive note because Cisco Liebert as we said

[58:33] Championed a lot of movies you close your book with an appendix. That's really nice where

[58:40] You you highlight some buried treasures 25 movies that are more forgotten these days

[58:46] But got two thumbs up for sit from Cisco Liebert, and I wondered if you might pick

[58:51] You know just one dimension that off the top of your head that and then you know

[58:55] People can go buy the goddamn thing if they want to know more. Yes

[59:00] Yeah, that that's sort of that was that that idea was kind of like the

[59:05] my attempt because it is a book about film critics and you know, like it is fun to

[59:11] Watch them just make fun of these terrible movies and I enjoy that too

[59:15] but uh, you know like I also was inspired to like be a film critic by the show and it really introduced me to a

[59:20] lot of stuff and

[59:22] To the idea of film criticism as a thing in the first place

[59:25] So I definitely wanted to put a little at least film advocacy in the book and that was what inspired. Yeah this appendix

[59:31] That has these 25 movies

[59:34] As you said, it's all it's all like movies that got two thumbs up or two. Yes votes in the early days, but

[59:41] They're not the gates of heavens or the do the right things or those kind of movies

[59:48] I'm thinking of like one that I should recommend because I've seen it having like

[59:52] Revival screenings for the first time in a really long time is this movie household Saints? I think it played the New York Film Festival last

[1:00:00] fall in like a revival screening. And I've been seeing it kind of popping up in art houses

[1:00:06] and different places. I think it might be playing at the Jacob Brooms Film Center this month in May.

[1:00:13] I'm not sure when this will this podcast will come out, but I'm pretty sure it's it's part of this

[1:00:17] like festival that they're doing of like restored recently restored movies. And I think they're

[1:00:22] even showing a documentary about the making of it. But for a long time, this movie like it was shown

[1:00:27] and it got good reviews. Esquilibria gave it to very enthusiastic thumbs up.

[1:00:34] And then it kind of faded away. And for a long time, you couldn't find it. It might have come

[1:00:39] out on VHS maybe, but it like never got released even on DVD. And you had to like really track it

[1:00:46] down. And it's this really it has if you look up the IMDb page, it has all these great actors in it.

[1:00:52] A lot of New York actors, people from the Sopranos you might recognize are in there.

[1:00:57] And it's a movie about sort of it's sort of like a cross between like a 90s indie drama mixed with

[1:01:03] like a film about religion and spirituality and faith, which is something that isn't always in

[1:01:09] those movies that are a lot more like, you know, like I think of that period a lot more like

[1:01:13] Tarantino knockoffs, more like a boondock Saints. Yeah, yeah. It's all attitude and people,

[1:01:21] you know, a lot of profanity. And, you know, I like a lot of those movies, too.

[1:01:25] But this is something that's a little different from that period. And this was the I think

[1:01:31] probably of the 25 movies that are in there, this or there's like one or two other candidates were

[1:01:36] like my favorite of all those movies. Everything that's in the appendix, I went out of my way to

[1:01:42] watch. So it's all things they liked. But there's some things that they liked that I don't like.

[1:01:46] And I wasn't going to put it in the book. It all had to be it had to make it through my filter,

[1:01:50] and of all those movies, this was, I thought, like one of the biggest, like,

[1:01:55] blow away surprises where I was like, wow, this is one of the best, like 90s movies that I've seen.

[1:02:00] And it when I wrote the book, when I did the appendix, I had no idea that it was about to

[1:02:05] be restored. And now it's playing in some theaters. And I hope that means within the

[1:02:10] next year or two, it'll be out on some form, either on streaming or on home video.

[1:02:15] So that's one that I would absolutely recommend, like Household Saints. Keep your eyes peeled if

[1:02:21] it pops up at your local art house. Yeah, it does get a release on Vinegar Syndrome.

[1:02:29] Yeah, paging Vinegar Syndrome or one of those labels weird. Yeah, we need we need one of those.

[1:02:35] So that is that's one. I mean, I could give you more if we have time or if you want,

[1:02:40] but that would that's the first one that jumps out at me.

[1:02:43] Uh, I think we got to close up the balcony, but as they famously said on the show, well,

[1:02:52] we've got to close up the balcony and then they'd sweep up the spotlight.

[1:02:56] Yes. And they locked the doors. And that's when the movies would come to life when no one was around.

[1:03:03] But thank you, Matt, for coming on the show and talking with us and for writing a book.

[1:03:10] I really enjoyed it. And everyone listening should read.

[1:03:15] Before we sign off, I want to say thank you to our producer, Alex Smith.

[1:03:21] Check him out on the Internet. He goes by HowlDotty most places there. He's got his own

[1:03:26] projects. You should see MaximumFun.org is where you go for other podcasts on our network.

[1:03:34] Maximum Fun. Check those out. But for this Flophouse Mini, I will say goodbye.

[1:03:41] My name has been Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington.

[1:03:45] I've been Elliot Kaelin and remain that same person. And we've been joined by

[1:03:50] the scar giver. I'm Matt Singer, the scar giver. Sick.

[1:04:04] Maximum Fun, a worker owned network of artists owned shows supported directly by you.

FH Mini 103 - Siskel & Ebert, with Matt Singer

Transcript

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