The Flop House: Episode #34 - Mirrors

Dan McCoy

[0:00] This week we discuss Kiefer Sutherland in Mirrors, the film that decided that the most scary part of any horror movie is that part where something unexpected is seen in a mirror, and said, let's just make a whole movie of that.

[0:30] You can welcome us, why not?

[0:41] Yeah, switch it up.

Stuart Wellington

[0:42] Welcome to the Flophouse. This is Stuart Wellington.

[0:47] This is Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:48] This is Elliot Kalin. Chip Chip, here he oh, and so forth.

[0:53] Wait, wait, wait, are you English?

[0:55] I am today. It's St. Patrick's Day, the day we celebrate England in all its glory.

Dan McCoy

[0:59] No, that's not, that's not, no, it's a totally different island.

[1:03] Oh, Jamaica Day? Is that today?

Stuart Wellington

[1:06] Wait, was St. Patrick, uh, magical?

Elliott Kalan

[1:09] Yes, he's a saint.

[1:10] Yeah.

[1:11] You have to perform three miracles to be a saint.

Dan McCoy

[1:13] But does that, are they magic?

[1:15] They're masters of the mystic arts.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16] It depends on whether you would say that the power of Christ is magic or something far greater.

Dan McCoy

[1:23] Do you think it's a magic trick to be able to remove snakes from an island?

[1:28] Like a shaman?

Elliott Kalan

[1:29] He might have been a shaman like Santa Claus, yeah.

[1:32] Or that character from, uh, Ernest Goes to Camp.

Stuart Wellington

[1:35] So, what's, what's going on today, Dan?

[1:37] Other than, you know, St. Patrick's cheer.

Dan McCoy

[1:40] Well, what's going on is that we watched a little movie.

[1:42] Oh, right.

[1:43] Called Mirrors.

[1:44] Oh, nice.

[1:45] Mirrors.

[1:46] Mirrors.

[1:47] Starring Kiefer Sutherland.

Stuart Wellington

[1:49] Sutherland.

[1:50] Kiefer.

[1:50] And Amy Smart.

[1:52] Smart.

[1:52] Ames.

[1:53] Nice.

[1:54] Um, this was a great movie.

[1:57] Was it?

[1:58] Well, the thing is, is that it had, uh, well for, I mean it was a great movie if you base

[2:03] the quality of a movie on how, how appropriate the title is.

Elliott Kalan

[2:08] Yeah.

[2:09] And that, yes, then this was the greatest movie ever made.

Stuart Wellington

[2:11] Because there's a lot of stuff about mirrors in this movie.

Dan McCoy

[2:13] Yeah, I think there's probably, I wouldn't say it's an exaggeration to say that there's

[2:18] a mirror in every scene of this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[2:19] This movie has the kind of one-to-one relationship between its plot and its title that you usually

[2:24] only find in porn.

[2:26] Where the title tells you what you're going to find in the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[2:29] Wait.

[2:30] Can you be more explicit about that?

Elliott Kalan

[2:32] I won't get too explicit, but it would say called like Naughty Nurses.

[2:36] You're going to find some nurses having sex.

Stuart Wellington

[2:38] Probably.

[2:38] Or like Mighty Milkmaids might have lactating women.

[2:41] Yes, exactly.

Dan McCoy

[2:41] Or just nurses that have malpractice suits brought against them.

Elliott Kalan

[2:44] Yeah, that's, well, that wouldn't really be porn, but.

[2:46] Yeah.

[2:47] It depends, I mean.

[2:48] Unless they settle the malpractice suits out of court with blowjobs.

Dan McCoy

[2:53] I think most.

[2:54] A legal system at work.

[2:55] Most plaintiffs would go for it.

Stuart Wellington

[2:57] Or rim jobs.

[2:58] All right.

Elliott Kalan

[3:00] Too explicit.

[3:01] So mirrors, huh?

[3:02] Starring Kiefer Sutherland, Amy Smart, and others.

Stuart Wellington

[3:05] Kiefer Sutherland was in Young Guns, right?

Dan McCoy

[3:07] It's true.

[3:09] That has nothing to do with the movie we watched tonight.

Elliott Kalan

[3:10] I prefer to think of him as the Kiefer Sutherland of the cowboy way.

Stuart Wellington

[3:14] Wait, Keith?

[3:15] Keith Sutherland?

Elliott Kalan

[3:16] Keith or Sutherland.

[3:17] Son of Don Al Sutherland.

Stuart Wellington

[3:19] He's been a little typecast lately, ever since he was on that 24 Hours show.

Elliott Kalan

[3:24] Ever since he's been a successful actor on a successful television show, he's been typecast.

Stuart Wellington

[3:29] Yeah, everybody thinks that he's always this hard-nosed FBI agent guy who's only got 24 hours to live or something.

[3:39] He's got to spend a lot of time talking on the phone.

Elliott Kalan

[3:41] It'd be great if that was the premise, and then by the fourth season it's like, you only have 24 hours to live.

[3:46] Again?

Stuart Wellington

[3:47] It's like, Mr. President, I'm going to need the antidote right away.

Elliott Kalan

[3:51] Nope, not until you finish the case.

Stuart Wellington

[3:53] You can't do that this time, Keith Sutherland.

Dan McCoy

[3:58] Wait, so his character is named Keith Sutherland?

Elliott Kalan

[4:02] It's a stretch.

[4:02] Yeah, it's hard.

[4:04] It's acting, Dan.

[4:05] It's like Jerry Seinfeld playing himself.

Dan McCoy

[4:07] Oh, man.

Elliott Kalan

[4:08] When he played Jeremy Seinfeld.

Dan McCoy

[4:11] Okay, this is the most gibberish we've started off a podcast with.

[4:14] What are we going to do?

[4:15] What?

[4:16] Mirrors is a fairly bland film.

[4:17] If anyone's tuning in to the Flophouse, that episode, like, I think this is 34, it's going to be.

Stuart Wellington

[4:24] Okay, well, the story here is that we watched this shitty movie, and now we're going to talk about it for a little while.

Dan McCoy

[4:30] What's the story of the movie, though?

[4:31] What happens in the film?

Stuart Wellington

[4:32] Okay, stick with me.

[4:35] Basically, this dude totally needs to get a job, so he gets a job.

Elliott Kalan

[4:39] He's a former police officer who's dealing with alcohol problems.

Stuart Wellington

[4:42] Okay, so he needs a job because he's a former police officer, and his pretty hot wife doesn't like him seeing his kids because he's got a drinking problem, I think.

Dan McCoy

[4:52] And he's taking psychological medication.

Stuart Wellington

[4:54] Yeah, so he starts.

Dan McCoy

[4:55] He starts to have some rage issues, maybe.

Stuart Wellington

[4:56] Yeah, so he starts working at this burned-up old department store in the middle of Manhattan.

[5:01] The Mayflower.

[5:02] Yeah, which I think used to be a sanitarium or something.

Elliott Kalan

[5:07] A sanitarium then was converted into a department store, and then it burned down in the 50s.

[5:11] And this prime piece of real estate.

Stuart Wellington

[5:13] Wait, was it an Indian burial ground, too?

Elliott Kalan

[5:15] No, I don't think so.

[5:16] Okay.

[5:16] But this is a building.

[5:18] It's huge.

[5:18] It's an enormous building on 6th Avenue in the 20s.

Dan McCoy

[5:21] And it's not just that there's a building.

[5:23] The building is surrounded by yards.

Elliott Kalan

[5:25] It has a fair amount of landscaped land around it.

[5:27] And it's insane that this spot has lain fallow, as Dan put it, for 50 years.

[5:34] In the middle of Manhattan.

[5:35] Well, I mean, I don't think the ghosts that inhabit the building were going to sell.

[5:38] But Chelsea.

[5:39] A very valuable piece of real estate.

Stuart Wellington

[5:42] So Keith gets his job at this department store.

[5:47] His name is Matt Carson in the movie.

[5:49] Yeah, and he...

[5:50] It's a good Western name.

[5:51] Yeah, he starts seeing things.

[5:53] He starts seeing shit in the mirrors.

[5:56] Like burned up bodies and stuff.

[5:58] Yeah, and he does a little bit of research.

[5:59] And then he realizes that he starts seeing shit outside of the department store.

[6:04] But still in mirrors.

[6:05] Yeah, it's all magic.

[6:06] The mirrors are following him around.

[6:07] Yeah, pretty quickly he realizes the mirrors are the problem.

[6:10] And then he thinks the mirrors are going to...

[6:13] His sister tries to tell him...

Elliott Kalan

[6:14] Where did my life go wrong?

[6:15] It's the mirrors.

[6:16] He's staying with his sister and she tells him he's crazy and he should quit his job.

Stuart Wellington

[6:20] And he's like, fuck that.

[6:21] I need this job.

[6:22] And then a mirror version of her makes her rip her own jaw off in a totally awesome scene.

Elliott Kalan

[6:28] The first scene of the movie is a guy.

[6:29] He's running away from mirrors.

[6:31] And a mirror image of himself cuts his throat.

[6:34] So his throat also opens up.

[6:36] And so in this one, in the mirror, this mirror version of Amy Smart starts ripping her own jaw off.

[6:41] And Amy Smart, her jaw also gets ripped off.

Stuart Wellington

[6:44] It's pretty awesome and kind of gross.

[6:46] It's very gross.

[6:47] So watch it.

[6:50] Okay, moving forward.

[6:53] K. Vercelin totally flips out.

[6:54] He's like, what?

[6:56] My sister?

[6:58] But you're not even in the department store.

Elliott Kalan

[7:00] So he goes to his wife's house and starts painting over the mirrors.

[7:03] Yeah, because that's the saw.

[7:05] To protect his wife and children.

Stuart Wellington

[7:05] Well, he tries to break the mirrors.

[7:06] And when he shoots the mirrors, they immediately heal.

Elliott Kalan

[7:09] Well, the mirrors in the department store do.

Stuart Wellington

[7:11] Yeah, because of their magic.

[7:12] Yeah.

[7:13] Oh, yeah.

[7:13] So he's painting over mirrors.

[7:15] His ex-wife thinks he's crazy.

[7:18] And then he proves he's not crazy somehow.

[7:21] I don't remember.

[7:22] He goes and tries.

[7:23] Like, the mirror gives him a name.

[7:24] So.

Elliott Kalan

[7:25] The mirror, everyone who's been a security guard at this department store, the mirrors have

[7:30] been telling them to find this person with this name.

[7:33] What is it, Essaker?

[7:34] Yeah, something like Essaker.

[7:35] And they haven't been able to, so it's been killing their families.

[7:38] His wife, he tries to find this Essaker person.

[7:41] He has a friend in the police force who's helping him do research.

[7:43] And his wife starts seeing things in mirrors also.

Stuart Wellington

[7:45] You would think the mirrors would be a little more explicit.

[7:47] Like, after the first or second security guard totally fucks up, they'd be like, it's

[7:52] Anna.

[7:53] Anna, Essaker.

[7:54] Not just Essaker.

Elliott Kalan

[7:54] That's the problem with these kinds of ghost movies is it's like, the ghost needs you to

[7:58] do something to help them, but the only way for them to get the message across is apparently

[8:02] scaring you.

[8:03] Yeah.

[8:04] In like, very obscure ways.

[8:05] Yep.

[8:06] So, yeah, but then they have a very...

Stuart Wellington

[8:07] It's like by making clocks spin backwards or something and you're like, oh, I should have

[8:11] known.

Dan McCoy

[8:12] No, they're using the Socratic ghost method.

[8:14] They know that if the person comes to the answer on their own, it'll mean more to them.

[8:19] Yeah, there's more learning.

[8:21] It's experiential.

[8:23] Experiential.

Elliott Kalan

[8:24] They're like, listen, I'm a ghost.

[8:26] I'm looking for Anna Essaker so I can take her body back over.

[8:29] Do me a solid.

[8:30] I won't hurt your family.

Stuart Wellington

[8:31] Well, I think the journey is just as important as the solution for the demon ghost thing.

Dan McCoy

[8:36] And it's important that someone's jaw gets ripped off.

Stuart Wellington

[8:38] Yeah, that shit was awesome.

Elliott Kalan

[8:39] Okay, but he finds out who Anna Essaker is.

Stuart Wellington

[8:42] So he goes and tracks her down.

[8:44] Turns out she used to be a hillbilly.

Elliott Kalan

[8:46] A Pennsylvania hillbilly, yes.

Stuart Wellington

[8:48] And then she was like a mental institute person.

Elliott Kalan

[8:52] She was possessed by some sort of evil.

[8:54] force as a kid.

[8:55] Yeah.

[8:56] Was put into the mental institution and her death was faked.

[9:00] Oh.

[9:00] Really.

[9:01] I didn't remember that part.

[9:03] Really, she left the institution, lived with her family a little longer because she was cured.

[9:07] And then she disappeared and became a nun.

[9:09] Yeah, because there's problems with mirrors.

[9:11] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[9:11] And let me point out that in rapid succession, the film ran through three horror movie cliche explanations.

[9:21] One woman in sanitarium.

[9:22] Oh, right.

[9:23] Actually, one hillbillies.

[9:25] Two women in sanitarium.

[9:26] Three Catholics.

[9:28] Yep.

[9:29] So, uh...

Stuart Wellington

[9:30] It was like one after another.

[9:31] Body blow, body blow.

[9:32] Shot to the jaw.

Dan McCoy

[9:33] It's like breaking a bunch of mirrors.

[9:35] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[9:35] But, uh...

[9:36] And so, it turns out that she explains that she had a demon inside of her.

[9:42] Absolutely.

[9:43] She went to the sanitarium and the doctor had a revolutionary new method for curing people

[9:47] with schizophrenia.

[9:48] Involving.

[9:49] Sit them in a room full of mirrors, strap them in a chair, and just force them to look

[9:53] at themselves for a while.

Dan McCoy

[9:54] Yeah, well, Elliot, schizophrenics just really need to think about what they've done.

[9:57] Apparently.

Stuart Wellington

[9:58] Yeah, it's in the harsh light of mirrors.

[10:02] Only then can you realize that you're crazy and you gotta stop thinking weird.

[10:06] The only way I can...

[10:06] Oh, that's what I'm...

Elliott Kalan

[10:07] I'm crazy.

[10:08] Look at me.

[10:09] I got a demon in me.

[10:10] Well, when I look at myself from the outside, I seem crazy.

[10:12] The only way I can buy it is it was the 50s and nobody knew anything about psychiatry then.

[10:16] They thought it was all craziness.

[10:17] Phrenology and shit.

Dan McCoy

[10:18] Well, that's about 70 years earlier.

[10:20] I can buy that more than I can buy what happened next, which is apparently...

[10:24] Yeah, 100 years earlier.

[10:24] ...for some reason, the mirrors just sucked the demon out of her and trapped them in Mirror

[10:28] World.

Elliott Kalan

[10:29] Yeah, so the demon was sucked out of her.

[10:31] I don't know why.

[10:31] Wait, is that a movie?

Stuart Wellington

[10:32] Mirror World?

[10:33] It's a...

Elliott Kalan

[10:34] Mirror Mask, you're thinking.

[10:35] There is a...

[10:36] I think there is a book called Mirror World.

Stuart Wellington

[10:37] No, that's Dreamscape.

[10:39] No.

[10:39] With the big cobra-headed guy.

Dan McCoy

[10:41] You're thinking of the Russian satellite mirror.

[10:44] No, that's actually not what I'm thinking of.

Elliott Kalan

[10:45] I might be thinking of River World by the late Philip Jose Farmer.

[10:48] No.

[10:48] You're thinking of Flatland.

Stuart Wellington

[10:50] Flatliners?

[10:51] Flat...

[10:52] Wait a minute.

[10:53] With Keith Sutherland.

[10:54] Oh my god.

[10:55] And Kevin Bacon.

Elliott Kalan

[10:56] Anyway, so the demon got sucked out of her.

[10:58] Now it's living in mirrors and it wants her back.

[11:01] Gesundheit.

[11:01] It's been trying to explain this to security guards by killing them and it hasn't been getting

[11:06] through.

[11:07] Yeah.

[11:07] Luckily, Kiefer is a cut above the rest.

Stuart Wellington

[11:09] I need to...

[11:10] Like, I kind of want to sit that demon down and start thinking about its victory conditions.

[11:13] Like, demon, what...

[11:14] You know, what are you trying to achieve?

[11:16] Are you trying to actually solve something?

[11:18] So you should probably stop...

[11:19] I mean, granted...

[11:20] It's in love.

[11:20] Wait, it's in love?

Elliott Kalan

[11:21] That's my guess.

[11:22] It's in love with Anne Esiker.

Stuart Wellington

[11:23] Now the problem is, I guess, is that it gets frustrated really easily.

[11:27] So it just makes people kill themselves in mirrors or something?

Elliott Kalan

[11:31] Well, it's not very...

[11:32] It's not a good...

[11:33] It's not good at thinking things through, this demon.

[11:35] It has fits of rage.

Stuart Wellington

[11:36] Yeah.

[11:37] And I mean, it's...

[11:38] In many ways, it's like our protagonist.

[11:39] It's like...

[11:40] Almost like a mirror of him.

Elliott Kalan

[11:42] Not really.

[11:43] Anyway, so...

[11:44] Yeah, because of the rage.

[11:46] Anyway, meanwhile, at home...

[11:47] It doesn't look like him.

[11:48] It looks like a demon.

[11:49] Yeah.

[11:49] Kiefer Sutherland's son has chipped away the paint over the mirrors because he is friendly

[11:56] with this mirror demon and is luring him to try to get to the family.

[12:00] It starts attacking the family.

[12:02] Kiefer Sutherland finds the nun.

Stuart Wellington

[12:03] Hey, wait.

[12:03] Was that the scene where the ex-wife gets all wet?

Elliott Kalan

[12:07] Yeah, eventually.

[12:08] Okay.

[12:09] Throughout the movie, the ex-wife shows more and more cleavage as the film goes on.

[12:13] And eventually, she's just wearing a really wet shirt.

[12:15] It's almost like it's a joke.

Dan McCoy

[12:16] It's almost like the story I heard about Wally Wood and Power Girl, where he just kept increasing

[12:22] the size of her bust to see whether anyone would ever notice, and they never did.

[12:26] And that's why Power Girl has such a huge, ridiculous rack.

Elliott Kalan

[12:30] Is a superhero whose main characteristic is a huge rack.

Dan McCoy

[12:33] It seemed like Alejandra Aja, the director of this, was pulling the same price.

Stuart Wellington

[12:39] Yeah, and between every shot, he's reaching over and pulling that neckline down a little

[12:43] bit.

[12:44] I think what it is, is it's building up the payoff at the end.

[12:47] You're like, it's really important.

[12:49] By the end, you're like, man, it's really important that he wins, because that's some

[12:52] great cleavage.

Elliott Kalan

[12:53] Yeah.

[12:53] That's a nice set that he's coming home.

[12:55] That's what he's fighting for.

Stuart Wellington

[12:56] Yeah, I mean, that's...

[12:57] That's why we fight.

Dan McCoy

[12:58] Yeah, exactly.

[12:59] For those rounders.

Elliott Kalan

[13:01] That's what that movie's about, right?

[13:03] The movie Rounders?

[13:04] Yeah.

[13:05] I might have to rent it now.

[13:08] So she's trying to save her kids from this evil mirror thing that's chasing after her, and

[13:14] he takes the nun at gunpoint because she refuses to come with him, takes her back to the department

Stuart Wellington

[13:18] store, and then...

[13:20] And his wife makes some really weird calls.

[13:22] Like, there's a lot of times where she thinks she sees her son, and you're like, yeah, lady,

[13:27] that's clearly a mirror kid.

[13:29] Like, your son's nowhere around here.

[13:31] What are you doing to...

[13:32] Oh, now it cut your face.

[13:33] You fucking deserve that.

Elliott Kalan

[13:35] She calls him, and she's like, I'm so scared.

[13:37] He's like, what's going on there?

[13:38] I'm so scared.

[13:39] Just tell me what's going on.

[13:40] I'm so scared.

[13:41] Okay, listen.

[13:42] You're not getting through to me.

[13:43] You gotta tell me in more descriptive terms.

[13:45] But then he says, I'll be right there.

[13:47] But then he takes the nun to the department store.

Stuart Wellington

[13:49] Yeah, that was kind of weird.

[13:50] That was a weird call on his part.

[13:51] He should have dropped the nun off.

Elliott Kalan

[13:53] Yes, but anyway, he takes her back to the department store, straps her in the mirror

[13:56] chair.

[13:57] The mirrors, you know, the demon comes back into her.

[14:00] The mirrors explode outward.

Dan McCoy

[14:01] Which was awesome.

Elliott Kalan

[14:02] Seemingly shredding the hell out of her.

Dan McCoy

[14:04] Yeah, she like...

[14:05] In a cloud of blood.

[14:05] She vaporizes in a cloud of blood.

[14:07] But then...

Stuart Wellington

[14:08] If you want to see a movie where a nun vaporizes in a cloud of blood.

[14:11] I think the demon was really waiting for that.

[14:13] Like, he had serious nun blue balls, I guess?

Elliott Kalan

[14:17] And now this is where the movie usually would end.

[14:20] Kiefer Sutherland escapes.

[14:22] Maybe the department store falls apart, and he reaches his family.

[14:25] But the movie instead was like, hmm, I kind of want there to be a hyperactive fight scene

[14:30] between Kiefer Sutherland and a demon.

Stuart Wellington

[14:32] So...

Elliott Kalan

[14:32] In the midst of a collapsing tunnel.

[14:35] A collapsing tunnel and fire everywhere and explosions.

Dan McCoy

[14:38] Yeah, so the nun lady comes back as maybe one of the Army of Darkness Evil Dead 2 ghouls.

[14:43] Or like a Resident Evil ghoul.

[14:44] Yeah.

[14:45] A combination.

Stuart Wellington

[14:45] There's a little more CGI than Army of Darkness.

[14:47] Yeah.

[14:48] Which thus made it scarier.

Elliott Kalan

[14:50] There's a lot of bad CGI in this.

[14:51] But so, and they fight forever, and she throws Kiefer Sutherland through a brick wall, and

[14:56] he's fine.

[14:57] And it ends literally with him impaling her on a steam pipe, just like at the end of Commando.

Stuart Wellington

[15:02] Yeah, like, the scenes where she's throwing him through a brick wall have the, like, level

[15:06] of realism as an episode of Smallville.

Elliott Kalan

[15:09] But it kind of turns into an Evil Dead movie by that point.

[15:13] Like, all it needed was Kiefer Sutherland to be like, come on, baby, let's do this, you

[15:17] know, or like, impaling him in that hurt and saying, groovy.

Stuart Wellington

[15:20] You got real ugly.

[15:22] None, or, I don't know.

[15:23] Oh!

[15:24] There's all kinds of explosions.

Elliott Kalan

[15:25] And then, what happens to Kiefer?

Stuart Wellington

[15:27] Well, he gets smashed by a rock or something, I think.

[15:29] And then?

[15:31] Then he, like, wakes up, right?

[15:33] The twist ending?

[15:33] No, he wakes up, and he's walking around.

Elliott Kalan

[15:36] He's walking around, and?

Dan McCoy

[15:39] Um.

[15:40] Stuart, did you notice anything strange about the words?

Stuart Wellington

[15:43] Well, I mean.

[15:44] Woke up?

[15:45] Well, it looked like everything was backwards, but I thought I'd just been drinking a lot.

Elliott Kalan

[15:49] No, everything was backwards, because now he's trapped in the mirrors.

[15:53] Wait, what?

[15:54] For some reason.

[15:56] Come on.

[15:57] Nope, and then cut to credits.

[15:59] What?

Dan McCoy

[16:02] That's it.

[16:03] Come on.

[16:03] That's the end of the movie.

[16:04] The hell you say.

Elliott Kalan

[16:05] But it's like.

[16:06] What?

[16:06] It feels like.

[16:07] It feels like a movie that.

[16:09] Come on.

[16:10] The script ended.

[16:12] Come on.

[16:14] What are you talking about?

[16:15] That's what?

[16:16] That's how it ends.

[16:17] Wait.

[16:18] You watched it with us.

[16:18] Wait, what?

[16:19] You watched it with us.

[16:20] That's how it ended.

[16:20] That's how it ended?

[16:21] Yes.

[16:22] Come on.

[16:27] That was the end of the movie.

[16:28] What?

Stuart Wellington

[16:29] Wait, that's the end?

[16:31] Yes.

[16:33] Come on.

[16:37] Wait, he's a ghost now?

Elliott Kalan

[16:38] No, he's not necessarily a ghost.

[16:39] He's trapped in the mirror world, though.

[16:41] Wait, but he's like walking around.

[16:43] He's walking around, but he's in a mirror.

[16:45] You know, he's in the reverse image of the world around him.

Stuart Wellington

[16:47] Come on.

[16:48] That doesn't make sense.

Elliott Kalan

[16:49] No, it doesn't.

[16:50] But it's still the end of the movie.

[16:52] Wait, what?

Stuart Wellington

[16:54] Wait, is he a demon?

Elliott Kalan

[16:55] No, he's not a demon.

[16:56] He's just himself.

[16:58] Come on.

[16:58] That doesn't make any sense.

[17:00] The movie, it feels like the movie probably originally ended at the mirrors all exploding

[17:05] and the nun.

Stuart Wellington

[17:07] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[17:09] Wait, before the nun became a demon or when the nun got shredded?

Elliott Kalan

[17:13] Right when the nun got shredded.

[17:15] Yeah, that would have been awesome.

[17:18] And then they threw a demon fight scene in.

Stuart Wellington

[17:21] Yeah, I think there's like a scene where, you know, the nun gets shredded.

[17:24] A couple mirrors explode.

[17:26] Cut to Keith Sutherland going, yes.

Dan McCoy

[17:29] And then like it kind of, then that's the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[17:33] And they did test audiences and it's like, you know, audiences didn't get enough closure here.

Dan McCoy

[17:38] One thing I really love about when he puts her in the chair, by the way, is he's brought

[17:44] this nun at gunpoint from, you know, the nunnery.

[17:49] From Pennsylvania to New York.

[17:50] Yeah.

[17:51] And made her sit in this chair because the demons want her back in order to save his

[17:57] family.

[17:58] And then he says, thank you.

[18:00] As if this was a sacrifice she decided to make.

[18:03] Well, maybe on the ride over.

[18:04] Which would have made sense if, you know, like, I mean, you know, she is a nun, but that never

[18:08] happened.

[18:09] He forced her.

Elliott Kalan

[18:10] She's also a really selfish nun.

[18:11] He asked her for help to save his family.

[18:13] And she goes, no.

[18:15] And then he shows her a picture of his family.

[18:17] He's like, these are the only thing that matter in the world to me.

[18:19] And she goes, no, I'm sorry.

[18:20] And then he, you know, puts a gun at her and says, now you'll come with me.

Dan McCoy

[18:24] But, I mean, wasn't she afraid that the demons would be able to get out if she returned to...

[18:28] Well, maybe she should have said that.

Stuart Wellington

[18:29] What kind of shit did she do when she was, like, a little girl and possessed?

Elliott Kalan

[18:33] She just, like, kind of bit people in.

Stuart Wellington

[18:34] She's just fucking weird, right?

[18:35] It's not like she was, like, a super powerful person or something.

Elliott Kalan

[18:38] Well, she was, but she had more strength than an average little girl.

[18:41] But she was just kind of a handful.

[18:42] Yeah, but I mean, like...

[18:43] She was like Problem Child.

Stuart Wellington

[18:44] Yeah, okay.

[18:45] Like Clifford?

[18:46] Yes, like Clifford with Martin Short.

Elliott Kalan

[18:49] So, I remember...

[18:50] Wait, like The Good Son?

[18:52] Yeah, like The Good Son with Elijah Wood and Macaulay Culkin.

[18:55] Seeing, this is a very quick side note, but I remember when Martin Short was on David Letterman's show to promote Clifford.

[19:01] And Letterman keeps saying, well, I saw the movie last night.

[19:04] It's really funny.

[19:04] I saw it last night.

[19:05] It's really funny.

[19:06] And as...

[19:07] I don't know how old I was, maybe, like, 13 or 14, but realizing, like, wait a minute.

[19:11] He didn't see that movie.

[19:13] That movie looks terrible.

[19:15] He can't be saying it's funny, really.

[19:17] That's when I got disillusioned with David Letterman.

[19:19] Yeah.

[19:19] Anyway, so...

[19:20] Through the looking glass.

Dan McCoy

[19:22] So, I know that you might think that this movie was flawless listening, but there were some problems.

[19:30] Really?

[19:30] It's very boring at times.

[19:32] Yeah, well, there were long scenes of Kiefer...

[19:35] Just walking around.

[19:35] Just walking through the department store, looking at things with his flashlight.

Elliott Kalan

[19:39] And you're probably thinking, like, oh, walking through the department store, there's probably a montage of him trying on different outfits.

[19:44] Set to a song?

[19:45] No.

[19:46] No, there wasn't...

[19:46] Nothing like that.

[19:47] There was no walking on sunshine to be found.

[19:49] Yeah, there was no, like, open...

Stuart Wellington

[19:50] Like, there could have at least been one, like, opening montage of that.

[19:53] So, it kind of puts you at ease.

Dan McCoy

[19:55] Kiefer dancing with, like, the charred mannequins.

[19:58] Yeah.

[19:59] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[19:59] Or, like, looking around and being like, why so glum, Bernie-faced mannequins?

Elliott Kalan

[20:04] What?

[20:05] Kiefer puts way too much effort into his security guard job.

[20:08] Yeah.

[20:09] Oh, he fucking takes it super serious.

Dan McCoy

[20:11] Even from the start, he's like, ah, okay, this abandoned building that I am, like, the one security guard hired to look after.

[20:20] I don't know.

[20:21] Does it really matter that he, like, goes through those, makes his rounds all the time?

[20:25] And then once he discovers that the place is haunted, he seems really committed to tracking it down.

[20:30] Yeah.

[20:30] He's like a member of the Scooby-Doo game.

[20:32] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[20:33] He's like the security guard that Scrooge McDuck should hire to guard his fucking money bin to keep the Briga boys out or something.

[20:39] Because he's fucking serious, man.

Elliott Kalan

[20:40] It's his cop instincts.

[20:41] He goes, I smell a mystery.

[20:43] Yeah.

[20:43] Time to get to the bottom of this.

Stuart Wellington

[20:45] Let's go down into the cool flooded basement that isn't very water damaged.

[20:49] It's like that awesome scene from the movie Mind Hunters with Rennie Harlan.

Elliott Kalan

[20:53] You were talking about that during the film.

Stuart Wellington

[20:55] Yeah, it's a really good movie where the killer, I think it's Johnny Lee Miller, sorry to spoil it, like, sets up these, like, Rube Goldberg-esque, like, kills.

Dan McCoy

[21:06] People are listening to this podcast to hear about mirrors and you've just ruined Mind Hunters for them.

Stuart Wellington

[21:11] Yeah, but these, I would like to think that people who are listening to this podcast have the taste to have already seen Mind Hunters a few times, like me.

[21:18] A few times?

[21:20] Yeah, absolutely.

[21:21] It's like bought it as a DVD double pack with Deep Blue Sea or something.

Elliott Kalan

[21:25] Is Mind Hunters the one where they're on, like, a trip?

[21:27] They're on, like, a retreat?

Stuart Wellington

[21:28] Well, they're all FBI students.

[21:30] They're being trained to be serial killer catchers.

Elliott Kalan

[21:33] And is LL Cool J in that?

[21:35] He is in that one.

[21:36] Okay, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:37] Just like Deep Blue Sea.

[21:38] And Christian Bale.

[21:39] Oh, wait, no.

[21:40] Christian Slater.

[21:41] I almost said Christian Bale.

[21:42] They're very similar in approach.

Elliott Kalan

[21:44] They're very similar in first name.

[21:47] Dan, what other flaws were you thinking of in mirrors?

[21:49] I've forgotten that.

[21:50] I'm thinking about Mind Hunters.

Dan McCoy

[21:52] Not enough mirrors in mirrors?

[21:54] No, I would say that there's a plethora of mirrors.

Elliott Kalan

[21:57] Were you as unhappy as I was that the scene of Amy Smart naked was followed immediately after by Amy Smart's jaw being ripped off her head?

Dan McCoy

[22:04] Yeah, I mean, those two things separately would have been great scenes.

[22:07] Yeah.

[22:07] Together in a juxtaposition.

Elliott Kalan

[22:09] There's something about a death scene in a horror movie that is made much worse for me if it's done to a naked lady.

[22:16] Like, to a lady with clothes on, it's different.

Stuart Wellington

[22:18] Do you feel it's like a waste or something?

Elliott Kalan

[22:20] I don't know exactly what it is.

[22:21] It's almost like it makes it impossible to enjoy nudity if something gory is happening during the scene.

Stuart Wellington

[22:26] It's going to be harder to rewind it to watch the new V and pleasure yourself or something?

[22:32] Is that what you're talking about?

Elliott Kalan

[22:33] Well, I mean, you guys were in the room, so I was going to do that.

Stuart Wellington

[22:35] Well, maybe later, right?

Elliott Kalan

[22:37] I like Ozzy.

[22:37] Maybe later on Dan's TV, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[22:39] That's where Stuart goes with it.

[22:40] It's not like, I think there's maybe some implicit misogyny in watching a naked lady die.

Stuart Wellington

[22:46] So, I think the problem I had with the movie is that it reminded me too much of various other Asian horror movies in that it wasn't very good.

[22:56] And it was that type of idea like, oh, there's this super supernatural thing that's causing all these problems.

[23:03] Let's solve the mystery.

[23:05] Okay, the mystery's solved because the ghost just wanted one thing.

[23:08] That's why I was killing people.

[23:09] Okay, the movie's over.

[23:10] Yay.

Elliott Kalan

[23:10] That's not even like an Asian movie.

[23:12] It's a run with it.

[23:13] But that's an older trope.

[23:15] Yeah, but it's...

[23:16] The ghosts have like one thing they have to get.

[23:18] What's the one with Charles Loughton where he's a coward ghost and he has to inspire heroism?

[23:23] The cowardliest ghost.

Dan McCoy

[23:24] No, it's like the Canterbury ghost or something like that.

Stuart Wellington

[23:27] I think you're thinking of The Ring.

Elliott Kalan

[23:28] Yes, The Ring.

[23:29] That's exactly what I'm thinking of.

Stuart Wellington

[23:30] So, but like, maybe it's just because that's like the...

[23:33] I'm being bombarded by bullshit Asian horror movies.

Elliott Kalan

[23:37] Well, yeah, there's a lot of them right now.

[23:38] And this one is...

[23:39] So, Dan, you were saying that the director said it wasn't a remake of a movie Asian movie,

[23:43] but it is.

Dan McCoy

[23:44] Yeah, the director...

[23:45] I went on Wikipedia and where he had done an interview where he's like,

[23:50] this is not a remake of the South Korean horror film Into the Mirror, but then the credits for the film credit the film Into the Mirror.

Stuart Wellington

[24:00] Based completely on the film Into the Mirror.

[24:04] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[24:04] Who are you going to believe?

[24:05] The director of the film or the credits of the film that the director directed?

Stuart Wellington

[24:09] I mean, the director was French, so maybe he was misquoted.

[24:11] Mm-hmm.

[24:12] Yeah, I mean, I was really disappointed because I really liked some other movies that the director, Alejandro A-ha.

[24:20] That's how you pronounce his name.

[24:21] I think so.

Elliott Kalan

[24:21] Yeah, he's the director who's always surprising people.

Stuart Wellington

[24:24] Yeah, he...

[24:24] A-ha!

[24:26] I really liked...

[24:28] What's your favorite band, Alejandro?

Elliott Kalan

[24:29] A-ha!

Stuart Wellington

[24:30] I really liked High Tension, which was a movie he made.

[24:33] I still haven't seen that.

[24:34] I like it exclusively for the twist.

[24:37] Well, do not ruin it.

[24:38] Not the gore or the masturbation scene, but just the twist.

[24:42] And then he also made that Hills Have Eyes remake, which was really gory and pretty awesome.

[24:48] So I was kind of hoping this would also follow the trend of having a great twist and being really gory and awesome.

Elliott Kalan

[24:55] I mean, it had a great twist.

[24:56] He's stuck in the mirror at the end.

[24:57] Wait, what?

[24:59] He gets trapped in the mirror, and that's why the writing is backwards.

Stuart Wellington

[25:04] Come on, what are you talking about?

[25:05] Wait, that's why the writing was backwards?

Elliott Kalan

[25:07] Yes, because he's trapped in the mirror.

Stuart Wellington

[25:09] I thought, like, the rock hit him on the head and he was retarded or something.

Elliott Kalan

[25:12] No.

[25:13] That would be a very different understanding of the film.

Stuart Wellington

[25:15] I was going to say, because that was really sad.

[25:19] How's he going to support his family?

[25:20] It's like Flowers for Algernon.

Elliott Kalan

[25:23] Yeah, it's exactly like Flowers for Algernon.

Stuart Wellington

[25:26] Okay, so, yeah, I was really hoping for a good movie.

[25:29] I mean...

Elliott Kalan

[25:29] This was not...

[25:30] This was...

[25:31] We've seen worse, but this was not very good.

Stuart Wellington

[25:34] No, no, it wasn't.

Elliott Kalan

[25:36] And it felt very padded at times.

Stuart Wellington

[25:38] Yeah, there's some...

[25:39] Like, I kind of like the fact that they make a point to have the main character kind of addicted to these weird pills that might make him hallucinate.

[25:48] But they didn't really play that up enough.

Elliott Kalan

[25:51] They gave the other characters just enough reason not to believe him.

[25:55] Until mirror shit started happening.

[25:57] All right, hold on.

Stuart Wellington

[25:57] Until they got their jaw ripped off by themselves.

Dan McCoy

[26:01] The problem with that, though, is like, it was one of these horror movies where no one believes the main character, and the main character does increasingly crazy things.

[26:09] It's a boy who cried mirrors.

Elliott Kalan

[26:10] Like an episode of 24 Hours.

Dan McCoy

[26:13] Yes.

[26:14] Well, he runs to the house, and he takes out all the mirrors, and he's like...

[26:17] He takes his wife, and he's like, watch this, and shoots the mirrors, and the mirrors don't heal themselves, and he looks like a crazy person who's out on the lawn shooting mirrors.

[26:27] In like a suburban neighborhood.

[26:28] Wait, that's crazy?

[26:30] But then, almost immediately after that happens...

Stuart Wellington

[26:33] The mirrors are always so judgmental, I would shoot them.

Elliott Kalan

[26:37] Why do you make me look fat?

Stuart Wellington

[26:40] Why do you make me look like Keither Sutherland?

Elliott Kalan

[26:44] It's impossible to not say Keither when you say his name.

[26:47] Kiefer is such a weird name.

Dan McCoy

[26:48] But almost immediately after that, the mother character sees her son in the mirror, like her son's sitting in front of the mirror and sees the reflection, but then the son gets up, and the reflection's still there.

[27:01] Bum-bum.

[27:01] And you're kind of like, mirrors, why have you stopped being coy all of a sudden?

[27:06] Why aren't you playing this cat-and-mouse game?

Elliott Kalan

[27:07] Well, the mirrors knew that it was time for the Act 2 reveal.

[27:10] Yeah.

[27:10] So Act 3 could kick in.

[27:12] I mean, it's not...

[27:13] This is a very mechanical movie in a lot of ways.

[27:16] Things happen exactly when they're supposed to happen.

[27:19] The story chugs along.

[27:20] The story takes its time at times, but it chugs along otherwise in terms of structure.

[27:24] And the only real surprise is at the end when there's that huge fight with the demon.

[27:28] And the reason it's a surprise is that tonally it does not fit anything that you've seen.

[27:32] It's like you're watching kind of, for the most part, there are scares in it, but this very subdued, like, somber movie.

[27:38] And then they throw in a big action scene at the end.

Stuart Wellington

[27:40] Yeah, where he gets thrown through an awesome, like, styrofoam brick wall.

Elliott Kalan

[27:43] He's thrown through a brick wall, and he's just firing his gun wildly at this monster.

[27:47] Pow, pow, pow!

Stuart Wellington

[27:49] It's like an episode of the Resident Evil video game show.

Elliott Kalan

[27:52] Yeah.

[27:52] And, I mean, don't get me wrong, that was the best scene in the entire movie.

[27:55] Yeah, it was awesome.

Stuart Wellington

[27:56] No, my favorite's when she rips her own jaw off.

[27:58] Yeah.

[27:59] That was gross.

[28:00] Yeah, that's...

[28:00] That was super gross.

[28:02] That was pretty cool.

[28:03] If I had been in a movie theater while watching it, I probably would have laughed aloud.

[28:09] Exactly the reaction they were going for.

[28:11] Yeah, that same, like, level of horror.

[28:13] You would have yelled out, that's a real jawbreaker!

Dan McCoy

[28:17] And then looked around to see if anyone else was laughing with you.

Stuart Wellington

[28:21] Yep, and the only person in the theater who would have been laughing was the fucking Crypt Keeper.

Dan McCoy

[28:26] Ha ha ha!

[28:27] Oh, Stuart!

[28:28] I can really get behind you, Stuart!

[28:31] I would have, uh...

[28:32] Spookert!

Stuart Wellington

[28:34] Halington!

[28:35] Ha ha ha ha!

[28:36] I would have gone to give him a high five, and he would have high-fived me with a severed hand.

Elliott Kalan

[28:41] That guy's awesome.

[28:43] Oh, man.

[28:44] That's one of my favorite television characters.

[28:45] Stuart, you made me laugh my head off!

[28:48] And his head falls off.

Dan McCoy

[28:50] Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.

[28:52] Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do.

[28:54] That would be great if the...

[28:56] My sides are splitting!

[28:58] I would like it if the Crypt Keeper existed in real life, but he just went around making puns,

[29:05] and he had a boombox of his own big songs afterwards.

[29:08] He just hit play.

Elliott Kalan

[29:09] I think that's your screenplay pitch, isn't it?

[29:13] The Crypt Keeper is down on his luck, and he's gotta come back, yeah.

[29:17] The Crypt gets shut down.

Stuart Wellington

[29:19] Oh, man, what a good movie.

[29:21] I'd watch that shit.

[29:23] The Crypt Keeper movie that we're pitching you?

[29:25] Yeah, I'd be in it, right?

[29:26] Right, we covered that, right?

[29:28] Yeah, you would have a cameo.

[29:29] Yeah.

[29:29] You would be in the beginning.

[29:31] What would the title be?

[29:32] The teaser in the beginning.

[29:32] What would the title be?

[29:34] I'm not smart enough right now.

Dan McCoy

[29:35] It would be something like, Out of the Crypt.

[29:38] Dead Again.

[29:38] No, there's a movie called that.

Elliott Kalan

[29:40] Dead Alive.

[29:41] No, there's a movie called that.

[29:42] Dead Calm?

[29:44] There's a movie called that.

[29:45] Dead Ringers.

[29:46] Dead Reckoning.

[29:47] There's a movie called that.

[29:48] Mr. Dead?

[29:49] Body Parts.

[29:50] Body Parts?

[29:51] The Lawnmower Man.

[29:52] What about Crypt Keeper the movie?

[29:54] What about Bob?

[29:56] All right.

[29:57] What about Bob?

[29:58] When Shannon Lou rules the game.

[30:01] Benny and June.

[30:02] Even before...

[30:03] Operation Dumbo Drop.

Dan McCoy

[30:04] Even before this run...

[30:06] Unlawful Entry.

[30:07] We were breaking our own record for just mentioning other movies.

[30:11] No escape.

Stuart Wellington

[30:12] Okay, so...

[30:13] Management Commander, The Horse of the World.

[30:16] Yeah, it was...

[30:16] Man, this was a good movie.

[30:18] Uh-huh.

Elliott Kalan

[30:18] This...

[30:19] It was better than An American Carol.

Stuart Wellington

[30:20] And An American Tale, Fibles Goes West.

Elliott Kalan

[30:22] I don't know if it's that good.

Dan McCoy

[30:24] Yeah, I don't know if there's like a lot more to dig into.

Elliott Kalan

[30:28] No, this is a pretty...

[30:29] This is a pretty shallow film.

Dan McCoy

[30:31] Especially since Elliot needs to go to Uruguay soon.

[30:34] So, uh...

[30:35] I'm not going tonight.

[30:36] Yeah, way to ruin the podcast, Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[30:39] I plan a vacation.

[30:40] I'm not flying out until Friday night.

[30:41] Uh-huh.

[30:42] I just didn't want to stay too late tonight, so I'd be rested up for the trip.

[30:45] So, anyway...

Dan McCoy

[30:46] So, should we do our ratings of the movie now?

[30:48] Let's do our ratings of the movie.

[30:49] What are the ratings again, Dan?

[30:51] Is this a good-bad movie, a bad-bad movie, or a movie that you may have liked a little bit?

Elliott Kalan

[30:57] Oh, shit.

[30:58] I'm going to say...

[30:59] Oh, it's a hard one.

[31:01] It's a bad-bad movie, but there are glimmers of fun things in it.

[31:05] Like, I wouldn't go so far as to say good-bad movie because it's not particularly funny.

[31:10] Like, it's not so crazy that it's funny, but it's not a good movie.

[31:13] But, I mean, girl rips her own jaw off.

[31:15] There's a huge fight scene at the end between Kiefer Sutherland and a demon nun.

[31:19] Like, there are a couple moments that are worthwhile if you like that sort of thing.

[31:24] But overall, it's not great.

[31:25] I give it, you know, mixed.

[31:26] If there's a level between good-bad and good or, you know, off to the side.

Dan McCoy

[31:31] Yeah.

[31:31] I would say that it's a...

[31:33] Whenever Kiefer Sutherland is just walking around the department store or whenever he's doing

[31:39] police work, it's a bad-bad movie.

[31:41] Yeah.

[31:42] And then the rest of the movie, I kind of like.

[31:45] Because, you know, fun things will happen.

Stuart Wellington

[31:48] Yeah, there's some really shitty CGI, which, like, every time the CGI came on, the movie

[31:54] dropped a couple points in my book.

[31:56] It did have a really good twist at the end.

[31:58] I think we already covered that.

[32:00] And what was that twist?

[32:02] Something about a demon.

Elliott Kalan

[32:04] No, there's one after that.

Stuart Wellington

[32:08] But, yeah.

[32:09] I think I'm going to have to agree with you guys.

[32:11] Like, this is a bad, bad movie.

[32:12] But there's a couple moments that I think it tries so hard to almost get out of that.

Dan McCoy

[32:18] There are a couple moments of real imagination.

[32:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[32:21] There's moments that you're glad you saw, Stuart.

[32:23] I can see it in your eyes.

Stuart Wellington

[32:24] Yeah, no.

[32:25] Well, of course, the jaw being ripped off, the demon.

[32:29] And not being vaporized.

[32:31] It was awesome.

[32:32] It's so unnecessary.

[32:33] Like, the slow-motion montage of mirrors exploding one after another.

[32:38] And, like, I think you see the same one explode, like, four times.

[32:41] They're just like, okay, camera two, camera three, back to the nun, camera four, woman holds child, perfect movie.

Elliott Kalan

[32:52] That's the whole thing with the scene where all the mirrors explode.

[32:54] Back to Kiefer doing a reaction shot.

[32:56] And the nun is vaporized.

[32:59] Cut to the cleavage.

[33:00] You expect to see the mirrors explode, but you don't expect the nun's body to basically blow up.

[33:05] And then they cut to something else, and then they show you that shot again.

[33:08] As if the movie is like, yeah, you didn't imagine her body just vaporizing.

Dan McCoy

[33:12] Would have been awesome if the demon nun shows up in spite of the fact that her body was totally vaporized.

Stuart Wellington

[33:16] I bet the original script had a moment where, as the mirrors are exploding, there's, like, a slow-mo shot of a mirror flying toward the nun,

[33:23] and you seeing the nun's face reflected in the mirror.

Elliott Kalan

[33:26] Yeah, and she turns to the camera, and she goes, this isn't going to feel good.

Stuart Wellington

[33:30] She goes, yeah, how's that?

[33:32] Uh-oh.

[33:34] She does a spit take from the Yoo-Hoo she's drinking.

[33:37] To a crazy straw.

[33:38] Yeah, it's really weird.

Elliott Kalan

[33:40] But, yeah, there's some fun moments in an otherwise very boring movie.

Stuart Wellington

[33:44] Yeah.

[33:44] So, all around, good review.

[33:47] So, what's going on, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[33:48] I've got a few short...

[33:50] You look like something's on your mind.

[33:51] I've got a few short messages from listeners.

[33:54] Oh, cool.

[33:55] I like listeners.

[33:55] First of all, Jen, last name withheld, wrote back.

[33:59] You may remember her as the woman who has a young daughter who likes to sing the song from WALL-E.

[34:06] Oh, yeah, that's right.

[34:07] Oh, ouch.

[34:07] That terrible Peter Gabriel song.

[34:09] She says...

Elliott Kalan

[34:09] That I so uncaringly talked about how bad I thought it was.

Dan McCoy

[34:13] She says, please reassure Elliot that I have my daughter on a strict music diet to counteract any unfortunate effects due to Peter Gabriel exposure.

[34:21] For every Disney princess song she hears, she then has to listen to something from my Riot

[34:25] Girl collection.

[34:26] Actually, she listens mostly to They Might Be Giants kids music, which is good for both

[34:29] our sakes.

Stuart Wellington

[34:30] Oh, that's very nice.

[34:31] They won a Grammy.

Elliott Kalan

[34:32] That's true.

[34:33] Get that kid listening to some Danzig.

[34:35] Did they win a Grammy?

Stuart Wellington

[34:36] Danzig?

[34:36] Yeah.

[34:36] Probably.

[34:38] But, um...

Elliott Kalan

[34:39] You just said they won a Grammy.

Stuart Wellington

[34:41] Yeah, no, we're talking about They Might Be Giants.

[34:43] Yeah.

[34:43] Oh, I thought you were talking about Danzig again.

[34:45] No, Danzig never won a Grammy.

[34:46] He's great.

Dan McCoy

[34:48] Well, anyway, you're saying...

[34:49] He looks like Wolverine.

[34:51] He doesn't look like Wolverine.

[34:52] She also sent a link to...

[34:54] Apparently, they're making a Marmaduke film.

[34:57] Really?

[34:58] And she says that you should dust off your Ziggy pitch.

[35:01] So, I'm going to put that Marmaduke link up on the blog.

[35:04] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[35:05] When are they going to make the...

[35:06] What's that?

[35:07] The pirate one?

[35:08] Is that Overbored?

[35:10] What's the pirate comic strip?

Dan McCoy

[35:12] Are you thinking of the French Foreign Legion?

Stuart Wellington

[35:13] No, I don't...

[35:14] The horrible, they're Vikings.

[35:15] No, there's the one with the pirates that are, like, poorly drawn.

[35:19] I don't think I've seen that one.

[35:20] Oh, for better or for worse.

[35:22] Maybe.

[35:22] Rose is Rose?

[35:24] Rose is Rose.

Elliott Kalan

[35:25] Where are they making that shit?

Dan McCoy

[35:27] Rhymed with orange?

[35:29] Yeah.

[35:30] Pearls Before Swine?

[35:31] Yep.

[35:31] Those are all great.

Elliott Kalan

[35:32] Shylock Fox?

[35:33] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[35:34] And Max Mouse?

[35:36] Oh, what a great movie.

[35:37] I hear Robert Downey Jr. is going to be in that.

Elliott Kalan

[35:39] I'm so surprised in the 80s they didn't make a Mark Trail movie with, like, Steve Guttenberg

[35:44] as Mark Trail or something like that.

[35:46] That would have been awesome.

[35:46] Or, you know, somebody, Burt Reynolds.

Dan McCoy

[35:49] Or, for that matter, like, to go back and, like, that should have been, like, a 1960s

[35:52] Disney film.

[35:53] Like, Dean Martin should have been Mark Trail.

[35:54] Or, not Dean Martin, Dean Jones.

Elliott Kalan

[35:57] Dean Martin would have been an interesting movie.

[35:58] Dean Martin would have also been.

[35:59] Look over there, Bobby.

[36:00] You see it's a bear.

[36:01] Don't touch him.

[36:02] Blah, blah, blah.

[36:04] Glug, glug, glug, glug.

[36:06] Frankie!

[36:07] Frankie!

[36:07] Put that vulture egg down.

[36:09] It's endangered.

Dan McCoy

[36:10] What do you have in your canteen there, Mark?

Elliott Kalan

[36:12] Don't worry about it.

[36:13] It's adult apple juice.

[36:14] Don't worry.

[36:15] That would have been a good movie.

[36:16] Just feeding my addiction.

Dan McCoy

[36:18] Let me sing you a song.

[36:21] Don't poach, animal.

Elliott Kalan

[36:23] When the moon hits your eye like a big...

[36:26] Oh, spotted owl.

[36:27] That's not...

[36:28] It's rare in these parts.

[36:29] Look at it, boy.

[36:31] My Dean Martin is also my Bing Crosby.

Dan McCoy

[36:34] So, spotted owl, where are you from?

[36:36] Anyway.

[36:37] Not talking, eh?

Elliott Kalan

[36:38] Not talking, eh?

[36:39] Just laugh him around, Frank.

Dan McCoy

[36:41] Anyway.

[36:42] So, look forward to the Marmaduke movies, the takeaway from that.

Elliott Kalan

[36:45] Well, I hope it's a CGI dog.

[36:47] That's all I can say.

Dan McCoy

[36:48] I hope it's a guy in a costume.

Elliott Kalan

[36:52] That's a movie I'd pay to see.

[36:54] And it was a guy in a very poorly...

Dan McCoy

[36:57] I hope it's two guys in a costume.

[36:58] Like a pantomime whore.

Stuart Wellington

[36:59] I hope it's Jamie Kennedy in a costume with CGI people.

Elliott Kalan

[37:04] So, check it out.

[37:05] That would be so awesome.

[37:07] Check it out, Pixar.

[37:08] That would be the best...

[37:10] I love the idea of a movie where everything is CGI except for the thing that should be CGI.

[37:16] It's like a movie about a dinosaur and everything is CGI except they use a person in just makeup as the dinosaur.

[37:23] Or like an animatronic dinosaur in a CGI world of people.

[37:27] That's the Denver the Last Dinosaur movie.

[37:31] That's like...

[37:31] Wait, you're not supposed to talk about my Denver the Next Dinosaur.

Dan McCoy

[37:35] Wait, Denver the Next Dinosaur?

[37:36] Denver the Next Dinosaur.

[37:38] What were you saying, Dan?

[37:39] Todd Haynes should make that movie or something.

[37:41] Todd Salons?

[37:42] Someone's going to do like a real deconstruction.

Elliott Kalan

[37:43] Yeah, Todd Salons should make the dinosaur movie.

[37:47] Anywho.

[37:49] And then...

[37:49] Marmaduke the movie.

[37:51] That's terrible.

[37:52] It's Beethoven, basically.

[37:54] A different breed of dog.

Stuart Wellington

[37:55] Yeah.

[37:56] But with probably a CGI dog.

[37:58] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[37:59] Not an email, but a comment on the...

Elliott Kalan

[38:01] When are they going to make a Fred Bassett movie?

[38:02] They're making comments for dogs.

[38:04] Anyway, sorry you're saying...

[38:05] What about a shoe movie?

[38:07] A shoe?

Dan McCoy

[38:08] A Mallard Fillmore movie.

[38:09] Croc?

[38:10] Anyway, also, not a letter, but from the website, a comment on the website.

[38:16] Okay.

[38:17] From Megan Lastname with Held.

Elliott Kalan

[38:18] Is no one sending us letters?

[38:20] What's going on?

Dan McCoy

[38:21] Yeah, wait, we have a website?

[38:22] A comment is...

[38:23] Yes.

[38:24] All right, what's the comment?

[38:25] Theflophousepodcast.blogspot.com.

[38:27] Sweet.

[38:28] And if you want to email us, it's theflophousepodcast at gmail.com.

[38:32] Sounds easy to me.

[38:32] Sounds good.

[38:33] But Megan Lastname with Held says, oh, floppers, you've done it again.

[38:38] I only wish there were more of you to crush unrealistically over.

[38:41] And I want to tell Megan, believe us, if we weren't all involved with women, that would

[38:47] be the most realistic crush you could possibly have.

Elliott Kalan

[38:50] The most attainable crush that you've ever had in your life.

Dan McCoy

[38:54] What are you talking about, dude?

Elliott Kalan

[38:56] That's true.

[38:57] Women are falling all over themselves, apparently, to get at Stuart Wellington.

[39:00] I was going to talk about Elliot.

[39:01] And the Cryptkeeper.

Stuart Wellington

[39:02] He's the real Lothario of this group.

Elliott Kalan

[39:03] Just because there are a few girls online who find me attractive.

[39:07] One of them who is some sort of latex fetishist.

[39:10] Yeah, you know, I...

[39:10] I understand like that.

[39:11] At one point I thought of...

Dan McCoy

[39:12] I bet Elliot looked pretty good in latex.

[39:14] What do you think, Dan?

[39:14] Thank you.

[39:15] Finally.

[39:15] At one point I thought of adding a poll to the website.

[39:18] And I couldn't think of any good poll questions.

[39:20] And one of them was going to be like, who's your favorite flopper?

[39:23] And then I'm like, no one's going to vote for me.

[39:26] Like, Stuart has the lustful, low-voiced charm.

[39:29] And you're the fast talker.

[39:31] I'm just like the guy who keeps trying to get...

[39:34] You're the Egon.

Elliott Kalan

[39:35] You're the Leonardo.

[39:36] You're very necessary for the group.

[39:38] Imagine.

Stuart Wellington

[39:39] You're Egon and Leonardo if they had a baby.

Elliott Kalan

[39:41] Egon and Leonardo.

[39:42] He's not even Ray Stanz.

[39:43] He's Egon Spangler.

Dan McCoy

[39:44] Stuart is Ernie.

[39:46] And Elliot is Bert.

[39:48] And I'm Bert that's not funny.

[39:51] You're one of the pigeons that Bert keeps.

Elliott Kalan

[39:53] That's not true.

[39:53] You're like...

[39:54] Well, like if I'm Kermit and he's Animal, you're Scooter.

[39:58] Or if I'm Alvin.

[39:59] If I'm Alvin, he's...

[40:01] That's the worst possible thing you could have said.

Stuart Wellington

[40:02] If I'm Alvin, he's Simon.

[40:03] You'd be Theodore, dude.

[40:04] All right.

[40:05] Wait, is it the fat one?

[40:06] Yes.

[40:07] Yeah, the short one.

[40:07] The fat one.

Elliott Kalan

[40:09] Okay, well then, if we're...

[40:10] If he's Snappin' I'm Crackle, you're Pop.

Dan McCoy

[40:13] Does that help?

[40:15] I think Egon was the best one, actually, so...

[40:17] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[40:18] Wait, is this Egon from the movies or Egon from the cartoon where he has that weird curly hair?

[40:22] But he doesn't...

[40:22] But he and Annie Pop...

[40:24] And he's blonde all of a sudden, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[40:25] He and Janine have a thing in the cartoon and not in the movies.

[40:27] Or white haired.

Stuart Wellington

[40:27] Oh, yeah.

[40:28] That makes sense.

[40:29] Yeah.

[40:30] I was like, for a second, I thought that they had a thing in the movies, but that was Rick Moranis.

Elliott Kalan

[40:34] Well, it's implied in the first one, but then in the second, Rick Moranis is that, yeah.

[40:37] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[40:37] Well, it's funnier that way.

[40:39] Anyway, to get back to what Megan actually said, incidentally, you mentioned the absence

[40:43] of Democrat-turned-Republican post-9-11 actor Ron Silver in an American Carol.

[40:49] Turns out he was busy dying, literally.

Elliott Kalan

[40:51] Oh, that's tasteless.

[40:52] It's true.

[40:53] That's tasteless.

[40:53] But it's true.

[40:54] It's true.

[40:54] He was in Heat Vision and Jack, for God's sakes.

Dan McCoy

[40:56] That's tasteless.

[40:57] The man was the villain in Blue Steel, people.

[40:59] But it's true, he was.

[41:00] Let's take a moment to remember Ron Silver, who was a good actor, not in a lot of good projects

[41:05] all the time.

Elliott Kalan

[41:06] He's an actor who, yeah, he kind of got dragged down by the projects he was in.

[41:10] If he was in A Reversal of Fortune, he was very good in it.

[41:12] Yeah.

[41:13] But more often, he was in Time Cop, which is a better Jean-Claude Van Damme movie.

Stuart Wellington

[41:17] It's not as good as Hard Target, but it's really good.

Elliott Kalan

[41:19] A better Jean-Claude Van Damme movie is still a great subpar, unfortunately.

[41:22] That awesome bit where he does the splits and everybody gets electrocuted, but him?

Stuart Wellington

[41:26] Which was awesome.

Elliott Kalan

[41:27] Mm-hmm.

[41:27] But, yeah, what's your favorite Ron Silver memory?

Dan McCoy

[41:32] I think it is Blue Steel.

[41:35] Okay.

[41:35] It's such a strange movie.

[41:37] It's sort of a horror film.

Elliott Kalan

[41:39] It's not a movie that gets talked about a lot anymore.

Dan McCoy

[41:41] Yeah.

[41:41] Well, Catherine Bigelow, certainly a forgotten part of her oeuvre, which is not a big oeuvre

[41:47] as it is, but people talk about Near Dark and Strange Days.

[41:50] But then there's like, oh, there's this movie where Jamie Lee Curtis loses her gun and Ron

[41:54] Silver starts going around town shooting people with it.

Elliott Kalan

[41:57] It's interesting because it's basically the plot to Stray Dog, the Kurosawa film, except

[42:02] Stray Dog takes place in a country where guns are illegal.

[42:05] So when the policeman loses his gun, he is very much responsible for the deaths that occur.

[42:10] Whereas in Blue Steel, he could get another gun.

[42:13] Yeah.

[42:14] Guns are very easy to get in the United States compared to Japan.

Stuart Wellington

[42:16] My favorite moment in Time Cop is at the beginning when a bunch of dudes shoot other

[42:21] people with Uzis, but they're in the Civil War times.

[42:25] They steal that gold, right?

[42:26] Yeah, they steal some Confederate gold.

[42:29] That movie just doesn't make any sense at all.

Elliott Kalan

[42:31] The same object can't exist in the same space at the same time.

[42:35] Well, that doesn't mean they can't shake hands.

[42:38] When I shake hands with someone, my hand is not inexisting in the same space as their

[42:42] hand.

Stuart Wellington

[42:42] Yeah, it makes you morph together like a weird blob.

Elliott Kalan

[42:44] Yeah, but that was what happened to him in the end, right?

Dan McCoy

[42:46] He dissolves into himself?

Elliott Kalan

[42:47] Yeah.

[42:48] He touches himself.

[42:48] And then turns...

[42:49] He touches himself in the end.

[42:52] Wait.

[42:52] Hold on.

[42:53] That's not what I...

[42:53] But wait, you meant...

[42:55] Oh, whoa.

[42:55] There was that joke somewhere where it was like a guy and his clone, and they were trying

[43:01] to figure out if it was...

[43:02] Or maybe it was multiple man in comics, whether it was gay if he masturbated himself.

[43:06] It was technically the same guy.

[43:08] I think one of them would be gay.

[43:10] There's that old Heinlein story where this guy, because of time travel, this guy is both

[43:14] his own mother, his own father, himself, and bartender that the whole story is told to.

Stuart Wellington

[43:23] Is that an incident at Owl Creek Bridge?

[43:26] No, that's an Ambrose Beer story that's completely unrelated.

Elliott Kalan

[43:29] And it's a different plot.

Stuart Wellington

[43:32] Come on.

[43:34] Most dangerous game?

[43:35] No.

[43:36] All right.

[43:36] Shouldn't we make our...

[43:37] We should make some recommendations.

[43:38] ...recommendations, and then I can go to Uruguay?

Dan McCoy

[43:40] Exactly.

[43:41] So, Stuart, what's a film that you saw recently that you would recommend?

Stuart Wellington

[43:44] Well, I saw Transporter 3 recently, and that was okay.

[43:48] I saw Watchmen, and that was okay.

[43:50] I saw Vampire's Kiss, and that wasn't okay.

[43:53] Boo on Vampire's Kiss.

[43:55] Did I already recommend Species 2?

Dan McCoy

[43:57] I think you talked about it last week.

[43:59] You did talk about it last week.

Elliott Kalan

[44:00] Okay, then I won't recommend that.

[44:03] When you thought the conversation was getting too political, you brought up Species 2.

[44:06] Yeah.

[44:06] Man, I'm funny.

Stuart Wellington

[44:09] Fuck it.

[44:10] I'll recommend...

[44:10] I just watched Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome again.

[44:13] I recommend giving it another shot.

[44:15] A lot of people kind of don't respect it as much because there's not a lot of shooting,

[44:19] because there's not a lot of guns at that part in the post-apocalyptic future.

Elliott Kalan

[44:22] No, that's not why people don't give it respect.

Stuart Wellington

[44:24] Okay.

[44:25] Is it Tina Turner?

[44:26] No, a lot of people...

[44:27] Tina Turner is one of several reasons.

[44:28] No, I'm talking about people like Mad Max fans.

Elliott Kalan

[44:31] There's not that much shooting in the other Mad Max movies either.

[44:33] They're mostly car racing movies.

[44:35] I don't know if I said that.

[44:36] They shoot stuff, but it's a lot of harpoons.

Stuart Wellington

[44:38] But, yeah, I don't know.

[44:40] I think Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome is probably the tightest.

[44:44] It's probably the best crafted of the three movies.

[44:47] The ADR work isn't as hilarious as in the first film,

[44:50] and, yeah, it's pretty good.

Elliott Kalan

[44:53] Interesting.

[44:54] It's an interesting look.

[44:56] From a Wellington perspective.

Dan McCoy

[44:58] I've not watched a lot of movies lately.

[45:00] I saw Stuck, which Stuart has already recommended,

[45:03] and I'll second that recommendation.

[45:05] I'm going to recommend something that no one needs recommended to them.

[45:08] I'm not breaking any news by making this recommendation,

[45:11] but I watched from Russia with Love,

[45:15] but I watched it on the new Blu-ray edition that has come out.

[45:19] I'd just seen Dr. No before this,

[45:22] and I watched from Russia with Love both on Blu-ray,

[45:24] and these films look much better than they have any right to.

[45:28] I mean, they look beautiful in a way that I sort of have a hard time imagining they looked even at the time.

[45:34] That's it.

Elliott Kalan

[45:36] I haven't seen anything lately that I really loved,

[45:38] but I'll recommend a movie I saw a while ago.

[45:41] Since you mentioned James Bond,

[45:43] another great spy movie is a little movie called The Spy Who Came In From The Cold with Richard Burton,

[45:48] which is kind of the spy movie that makes spying look the least enjoyable job in the world.

[45:54] So a lot like Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

[45:56] Yeah, exactly.

[45:56] It's just like Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

[45:58] What about a guy who becomes a double agent and defects to East Germany in order to get a job done,

[46:07] and the tightrope walk,

[46:08] he has to walk between his cover story and his real life to get out of there alive.

Dan McCoy

[46:14] Yeah.

[46:14] And for a movie where not a lot necessarily happens in the sort of big event sort of sense,

[46:20] it has some beautiful cinematography.

Elliott Kalan

[46:22] Yeah, it's a beautifully shot movie.

[46:24] It's a movie that's kind of beautifully shot grayness and sadness.

[46:28] Like, he's very, a lot of like damp streets and stuff, but they look really good.

[46:31] It's not a happy movie.

[46:32] It's not, you know, Get Smart.

[46:34] It's not Mirrors.

[46:35] It's not Mirrors, which is a laugh riot.

[46:37] Or Dr. Zhivago.

[46:38] Or Dr. Zhivago, which is three hours of wasted time.

[46:42] There's a, Dr. Zhivago is, it's two parts, and the first part ends on such a perfect note.

[46:47] The revolution has happened, Zhivago is taken up with this girl,

[46:50] and suddenly a train is coming up, and you see that her boyfriend is on it,

[46:55] who's now this high official in the party, and it ends, and it's like,

[46:58] oh my god, what's going to happen when he finds out about the two of them and confronts them?

[47:02] And what happens?

[47:03] Nothing.

[47:04] Nothing happens.

[47:04] They have a conversation, and that's it.

[47:06] And eventually their relationship falls apart anyway.

[47:08] Like, it's not a...

[47:09] But Omar Sharif.

[47:10] Yeah, great.

[47:12] Omar Sharif.

[47:12] What a performance.

Dan McCoy

[47:15] A performance that was not matched until he was the narrator for 10,000 B.C.

[47:19] Yeah.

[47:20] What else has he been doing lately?

Stuart Wellington

[47:21] He was in Lawrence of Arabia one time.

Elliott Kalan

[47:23] In those videos he used to do for casinos where he taught you how to play Bacharach.

Stuart Wellington

[47:26] Yeah, absolutely.

Dan McCoy

[47:27] It was in the movie Top Secret.

[47:29] Yeah.

[47:29] There it was.

Elliott Kalan

[47:30] So, we're just talking about Omar Sharif now, huh?

Stuart Wellington

[47:33] He gets smashed in a car, remember?

[47:36] It's hilarious.

Dan McCoy

[47:37] I didn't tell you guys.

[47:39] This is now the Sharif cast.

[47:41] We're doing a bit of a format change.

[47:43] The Omar House.

[47:44] He's, what, like giving us money or something?

Stuart Wellington

[47:47] Uh-huh.

[47:48] He wants to get his name back out there.

[47:50] Partially funded.

[47:51] Sure.

Dan McCoy

[47:51] So, um...

[47:52] Are you his agent or something?

[47:53] Not officially.

[47:54] I mean, I don't get 10%.

Elliott Kalan

[47:55] He and Maximilian Schell and Max von Sydow are going to get together to form the great actors

[48:01] who make crappy movies club.

[48:02] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[48:03] The last Max von Sydow movie I saw was a Dario Argento movie.

[48:07] That movie sucked.

[48:08] What movie was that?

[48:10] It's a movie about a kid who kills somebody with a flute.

[48:14] Fucking sucked.

[48:15] It's called Recital.

[48:16] I fucking hate Dario Argento.

[48:17] And he looks like a little creep.

Dan McCoy

[48:20] So, on the note of Stuart calling out Dario Argento.

Elliott Kalan

[48:24] So, Dario, you heard him.

[48:25] If you're out there, you're going to take Stu's challenge?

[48:29] Yeah, you little creep.

[48:30] You know where to find us.

[48:31] You want to fucking throw down?

[48:31] I think we should build this up, that Stuart Wellington wants to have a fist fight with Dario Argento.

[48:35] There you go.

[48:36] Hell yeah.

[48:36] That would be a fucking street fight, dude.

Dan McCoy

[48:38] Dario Argento, if you're out there, if you're listening, if someone knows you is listening,

[48:42] Stuart is challenging you to a duel.

Stuart Wellington

[48:45] Not Asia Argento, his daughter.

[48:47] No, she would kick your ass.

[48:49] Yeah.

[48:50] She's a spy in most movies, I think.

Elliott Kalan

[48:52] Well, she has sex a lot in her movies.

Stuart Wellington

[48:54] She kind of got a weird face, though.

[48:55] All right.

[48:56] Anyway.

[48:57] I think she gets that from her fucking dad.

[49:01] To say goodnight.

Elliott Kalan

[49:01] Yeah, it's like her dad was in the mirror world or something, right?

Stuart Wellington

[49:04] Absolutely.

[49:04] Like the mirror kind of mushed his face, so he looks like sloth or something.

Elliott Kalan

[49:08] I meant like he was in reverse, like at the end of mirrors.

[49:11] Wait, what?

[49:13] It ends with him in the mirror world and it's reverse.

[49:17] Who?

[49:17] Kiefer Sutherland.

[49:19] Wait, when?

[49:20] What?

[49:21] At the end of mirrors.

[49:24] Wait, come on.

[49:25] All right, Dan.

[49:27] I'll explain this after.

[49:28] I've been Dan McCoy.

Stuart Wellington

[49:30] I've been Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[49:31] I remain Elliot Kalin.

Stuart Wellington

[49:33] Goodnight.

[49:34] Goodnight.

[49:35] Goodnight.

[49:36] Mirrors.

[49:39] Mirrors.

[49:40] Mirrors.

[49:59] Mirrors.

[50:01] Mirrors.

[50:02] Mirrors.

[50:03] Mirrors.

[50:04] Mirce Cunningham.

[50:06] the choreographer.

The Flop House: Episode #34 - Mirrors

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